[heelhookofglory]

I seem to be prone to A1/ A2 area injuries on my ring finger, right hand. I injured it back in January and then, again, recently. I've noticed that when I crimp / half-crimp (note that both times I injured it I was open-handing on pockets, but just for reference sakes) my two middle fingers open apart quite a bit. It's similar on both hands but seems to be a bit more so on my right hand.

Could this be linked? Not idea I've I'm barking up the wrong tree. Also, does anyone have any advice on how to change technique to help reduce future injuries? I tend to open-hand rather than crimp as I've heard that too much crimping can also cause injuries  but lately my open-handed grip on my right hand has become weak due to pulley injuries.

As always, any insight greatly appreciated 

My (odd?) fingers. My ring finger does seem to be on an angle, overloading my A1/2? ...

[Duma]

My (odd?) fingers.

You're not wrong. Looks like you've got two middle fingers and two pinkies!

[heelhookofglory]

You're not wrong. Looks like you've got two middle fingers and two pinkies!

Haha. The pic is a little distorted, they ain't that bad... honest guv!

That does show the 'gap' that gets created well though.

[slackline]

Completely uninsightful and non-qualified suggestion, but what about taping them together to prevent the parting effect and allow them to support each other?

[heelhookofglory]

Completely uninsightful and non-qualified suggestion, but what about taping them together to prevent the parting effect and allow them to support each other?

Could do, as a temporary measure. I'm wondering if doing that would 'train' my fingers to stick together through hard times a little more rather than splitting up each time it gets tough. 

Has anyone else had experience with this?

[SA Chris]

If it's the same finger twice, then it's not healing properly and you are just injuring the same place again. If you keep this up it could become a chronic injury and fuck you up for ages.

What are you doing each time you injure it? And how are you rehabbing afterwards?

Then look at your climbing technique and see why you injured it in the first place. Crimping and half crimping everything is brutal on the tendons. Learn to open hand holds whenever possible. It will feel tiring, uncomfortable and wrong to start off with and you may initially take a backwards step while you are learning the technique but it's beneficial in the long run.

IMO anyway.

[heelhookofglory]

I injured it both times whilst open-handing. I hardly ever crimp and never have done, in fact the only reason I've started crimping now is so that I can climb using my injured hand as I can't open-hand very well on it post-injury.

The first time I injured it was back in Jan / Feb this year and it was at the end of a hard indoor routes session. I finished off doing a spot of bouldering on the steep woody at Stockport Awesome Walls. I latched a three-finger pocket dynamically (movement forced my weight towards outside of hand position), open-handed, and heard a pop. After researching it quite a bit at the time I put it down to it being a flexor unit strain as well as possibly a partial A1/2 pulley tear as the pain wasn't just in my finger, it was up my forearm, too.

As for rehab I applied the normal ice treatment straight afterwards and then some hot / cold treatment for a few days having read about it on Dave Mac's blog. Then after a week or so I started climbing very gently on it to stimulate re-growth. I then spent pretty much all summer climbing well below my limit and pretty much just repeated easy stuff outside, as well as a little trad, with no indoor climbing at all.

Then about a month ago, again at the end of a pretty hard indoor session, I went for a big jug dynamically and, due to poor body positioning, my hand slipped out of the juggy pocket. I automatically over-gripped to try and stay on the wall and felt a sharp pain in the same finger as previously, only this time it was very localised to the A1/2.

After that I just rested for a short while and spent about 4/5 weeks training in other areas: core, weights and mountain biking. I realise now that, that was probably a bad idea (having read posts and blogs about scar tissue generation) but hindsight is, indeed, a wonderful thing.

Any pointers would be massively appreciated. I really feel that a very steady summer has not had the expected results of producing a good solid base ready for winter training. A little gutted to be honest and I'm really not sure where to go from here.

Thanks for the advice so far, much appreciated.

[SA Chris]

I latched a three-finger pocket dynamically (movement forced my weight towards outside of hand position), open-handed, and heard a pop.

I went for a big jug dynamically and, due to poor body positioning, my hand slipped out of the juggy pocket. I automatically over-gripped to try and stay on the wall and felt a sharp pain in the same finger as previously, only this time it was very localised to the A1/2.

To me these are not injuries done while open handing, these are injuries done by doing things in an out of control dynamic throw late in a session when you are feeling tired. Sometimes best to let go rather than hang on at all costs, (let your ego take the hit rather than your body )

I could be wrong though. I would do the same as before, and try doing some dep friction massage to reduce scar tissue and let it heal properly before going full out again.

[douglas]

This is just a guess but it seems likely that you haven't injured your pulley but you've strained or partially torn the flexor tendon at the site of the pulley. If you've injured a pulley you shouldn't be able to crimp. Also I can't see how you'd injure a pulley open-handed either.

Not that the actual fine details of the injury are that important. What's more important is that you get it sorted. And I can't help you there, I'm afraid.

I also have a gap between my knuckles when crimping, and a gap between my middle two fingertips when my fingers are straight and together (like you're waving).

[Big Dave]

Yeah, sounds like flexor tendon not pulley, I've done that myself on a lunge to a sharp 2 finger pocket, pain in the palm of my hand too, took a long time to fully recover. 

[joeisidle]

I latched a three-finger pocket dynamically (movement forced my weight towards outside of hand position), open-handed, and heard a pop.

I went for a big jug dynamically and, due to poor body positioning, my hand slipped out of the juggy pocket. I automatically over-gripped to try and stay on the wall and felt a sharp pain in the same finger as previously, only this time it was very localised to the A1/2.

To me these are not injuries done while open handing, these are injuries done by doing things in an out of control dynamic throw late in a session when you are feeling tired. Sometimes best to let go rather than hang on at all costs, (let your ego take the hit rather than your body )

I could be wrong though. I would do the same as before, and try doing some dep friction massage to reduce scar tissue and let it heal properly before going full out again.

I'd roughly agree with this, it sounds like you know how to rehabilitate it in the short/medium term but you probably need to look at your long term climbing style to avoid this happening again. I've been through a similar cycle to you recently where I've attempted a summer of not climbing much (to rehabilitate finger injuries but due to a change of location more than anything) and managed to give myself a new finger injury by coming back into climbing hard steep stuff without enough preparation and build up.

The major way revelation I've had in terms of learning how to deal with this is to stop trying to jump back into the climbing style that gave me the injuries in the first place. I used to be an obsessed board climber who'd feel like I was slacking without 2-3 sessions on something steep every week but I've finally forced myself to bite the bullet and forget about when I can return to training and instead I just enjoy climbing non-steep stuff where I can train technique rather than strength. I am weak as a kitten but crucially I am (a) able to try hard on a specific type of climbing rather than climbing tentatively within my limit all the time, (b) making progress on technical stuff that I would have previously not even bothered trying as it wasn't 'good training' and (c) actually enjoying climbing again.

If (from the sound of your post at least) you are injuring yourself by throwing yourself between holds on steep terrain then stop climbing this sort of stuff. Instead work on changing your style of climbing so that you get psyched by the idea of something technical and not so steep that doesn't place a load of strain on your upper body, rather than feeling tempted to try gravitate towards the injury-inducing stuff that you might have been good at in the past as soon as the injury feels like it has died down (I am projecting A LOT here so feel free to ignore me if this doesn't sound like you  ). Anyway, good luck with it.

[heelhookofglory]

I am projecting A LOT here so feel free to ignore me if this doesn't sound like you

Actually, it sounds very much like me. Especially feeling like I'm slacking if I'm not having 2 or 3 sessions on steep fingery stuff. It is what I love climbing on the most 

[SA Chris]

Sadly what you love most is most likely to hurt you most.

[heelhookofglory]

Yeah, sounds like flexor tendon not pulley, I've done that myself on a lunge to a sharp 2 finger pocket, pain in the palm of my hand too, took a long time to fully recover.

How long? Did you do anything specific, other than changing type of climbing etc., as mentioned above?

[heelhookofglory]

Sadly what you love most is most likely to hurt you most.

You know my ex, Chris? 

[joeisidle]

I am projecting A LOT here so feel free to ignore me if this doesn't sound like you

Actually, it sounds very much like me. Especially feeling like I'm slacking if I'm not having 2 or 3 sessions on steep fingery stuff. It is what I love climbing on the most 

Ah I'm glad to hear I wasn't just being self-indulgent in writing that then . Yeah, steep and fingery was very much my preferred climbing style pre-injury, but whilst the grades I climb have taken a big hit it has been completely worth it to forget climbing that stuff for a while. Remember, the sooner you focus on other climbing styles and take a significant period off from the one injuring you the sooner you can return to the boards you love, whereas picking up a chronic injury that prevents you from doing it long term would really suck. Not to mention that I've found that whilst I've not been training my fingers at all for the past few months they've retained a significant amount of strength from semi-regular easy technical stuff anyway. Give something that's not steep and fingery a try and who knows, you may even find that you enjoy balancy slabs and aretes (I certainly know I've developed a taste for them).

[Big Dave]

Yeah, sounds like flexor tendon not pulley, I've done that myself on a lunge to a sharp 2 finger pocket, pain in the palm of my hand too, took a long time to fully recover.

How long? Did you do anything specific, other than changing type of climbing etc., as mentioned above?

The flexor tendon injury was about 6 months until it was fully recovered, where a couple of pulley injuries I've had took around 3 months.

I still went climbing, basically doing easier stuff with big holds for that hand. This was over 2 years ago and now open hand everything, I also tend to avoid deep/sharp pockets also these days in case of it reoccurring.

[heelhookofglory]

Thanks for the advice and info guys. Had a good day on the grit yesterday, mainly slabs, and the finger feels fine today. I'll have to learn to love the slabs, it seems!

[biscuit]

Don't get too depressed Steve. I searched around on Dave Mac's site and he basically said what others on here have. I needed a change in style and i am now gradually building up on the fingerboard to improve my crimp strength to stop it happening again. Learning to operate at full power but under control i guess is what is called for. Constant slapping at the same hold over and over again is asking for trouble - as i learnt the hard way.

I feel, like you, that the last time i injured my hand i was open handing but i may be wrong. Just shows how much attention i was paying to that hand. I can't even be 100% sure what position it was in. That says a lot to me about what i was doing wrong.

I am back on the steep stuff even better than before now so it's not going to be slabs all the way for you from now on.

Chin up !

[heelhookofglory]

I am back on the steep stuff even better than before now so it's not going to be slabs all the way for you from now on.

Cheers, Andy, good to know that there is a light and that you have recovered well.

As you say, it's not all doom and gloom as it really is making me focus on my main weakness -- slabs -- which has got to be a good thing really. I guess it's a blessing in disguise.

[spinmaster]

Hi Steve,

As a person that has been blighted by finger injuries since I started using boards, this is what I now do to keep them to a minimum. All my injuries have been in opened handed positions, when I have gone through a period of training in a crimped position.

- Warmup fingers with a grip master
- Stretch my fingers. Have a look at this link for tips http://www.climbing.com/print/techtips/tech_tips_finger_yoga/
- After I have climbed I do the stretches again.
- I then massage the fingers, palms of my hand and forearms. I also massage my fingers gently on stretch.
- When not climbing I still do the stretches regularly. I know Jerry Moffatt, as he got older used to perpetually stretch his fingers to reduce problems.

I know it sounds a pain, but it remains the only way I don't seem to get a regular pop....touch wood!

Hope this is useful