[Paul B]

There really is no need if this is the case.

We are happy to pick up the site and have said so previously.

We can start from scratch if there is a demand but it seems a duplicated waste of effort to do so for users who have contributed.

For what it's worth I think you'd be better starting from scratch with a DB that isn't limited to one area (such as Yorkshire), that way it can expand and grow, much in the way the UKC database has done (but with greater functionality).

Allowing user input and 'some' users moderation rights should keep data maintenance to a minimum, it's only the framework that'd take some time (any PHP/MySQL pros on here?). /2p

[slackline]

For what it's worth I think you'd be better starting from scratch with a DB that isn't limited to one area (such as Yorkshire), that way it can expand and grow, much in the way the UKC database has done (but with greater functionality).

Allowing user input and 'some' users moderation rights should keep data maintenance to a minimum, it's only the framework that'd take some time (any PHP/MySQL pros on here?). /2p

 

archive.org + wget 

[Lund]

There really is no need if this is the case.

We are happy to pick up the site and have said so previously.

We can start from scratch if there is a demand but it seems a duplicated waste of effort to do so for users who have contributed.

For what it's worth I think you'd be better starting from scratch with a DB that isn't limited to one area (such as Yorkshire), that way it can expand and grow, much in the way the UKC database has done (but with greater functionality).

Allowing user input and 'some' users moderation rights should keep data maintenance to a minimum, it's only the framework that'd take some time (any PHP/MySQL pros on here?). /2p

You're looking at quite a job to recreate this site; it's quite high function.  It's not just installing some already existing forum software, spanking on wordpress etc..

If you could get the database, then that would be a start.  Mining the wayback machine ain't a decent idea; you'd spend about fourteen years of your life trying to parse the html into data, time which would be better spent.

[daprince]

Anybody got an email or contact for Jon? I know somebody looking to take this on who has the skills, but no DB no joy and who knows where the video has gone, hope he had a back up. Oh and I want my tick list back but that's another story.

[slackline]

Mining the wayback machine ain't a decent idea; you'd spend about fourteen years of your life trying to parse the html into data, time which would be better spent.

I'm not offering to do this (I'm not actually too hot with RegEx's), but there must be some from of regular structure to the pages, that once deduced would be less time-consuming than going through the guides and retyping everything (although having basic skeletons for each venue and getting users to add content spreads the work load, but has issues regarding quality of descriptions).

[Lund]

Well.

That's interesting.  I use regex's a lot.  You might say that I am a bit of an expert.

You should read this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1732348/regex-match-open-tags-except-xhtml-self-contained-tags, but in brief

You can't parse [X]HTML with regex. Because HTML can't be parsed by regex. Regex is not a tool that can be used to correctly parse HTML. As I have answered in HTML-and-regex questions here so many times before, the use of regex will not allow you to consume HTML. Regular expressions are a tool that is insufficiently sophisticated to understand the constructs employed by HTML. HTML is not a regular language and hence cannot be parsed by regular expressions. Regex queries are not equipped to break down HTML into its meaningful parts. so many times but it is not getting to me. Even enhanced irregular regular expressions as used by Perl are not up to the task of parsing HTML. You will never make me crack. HTML is a language of sufficient complexity that it cannot be parsed by regular expressions. Even Jon Skeet cannot parse HTML using regular expressions. Every time you attempt to parse HTML with regular expressions, the unholy child weeps the blood of virgins, and Russian hackers pwn your webapp. Parsing HTML with regex summons tainted souls into the realm of the living. HTML and regex go together like love, marriage, and ritual infanticide. The <center> cannot hold it is too late. The force of regex and HTML together in the same conceptual space will destroy your mind like so much watery putty. If you parse HTML with regex you are giving in to Them and their blasphemous ways which doom us all to inhuman toil for the One whose Name cannot be expressed in the Basic Multilingual Plane, he comes. HTML-plus-regexp will liquify the n​erves of the sentient whilst you observe, your psyche withering in the onslaught of horror. Rege̿̔̉x-based HTML parsers are the cancer that is killing StackOverflow it is too late it is too late we cannot be saved the trangession of a chi͡ld ensures regex will consume all living tissue (except for HTML which it cannot, as previously prophesied) dear lord help us how can anyone survive this scourge using regex to parse HTML has doomed humanity to an eternity of dread torture and security holes using regex as a tool to process HTML establishes a breach between this world and the dread realm of c͒ͪo͛ͫrrupt entities (like SGML entities, but more corrupt) a mere glimpse of the world of reg​ex parsers for HTML will ins​tantly transport a programmer's consciousness into a world of ceaseless screaming, he comes, the pestilent slithy regex-infection wil​l devour your HT​ML parser, application and existence for all time like Visual Basic only worse he comes he comes do not fi​ght he com̡e̶s, ̕h̵i​s un̨ho͞ly radiańcé destro҉ying all enli̍̈́̂̈́ghtenment, HTML tags lea͠ki̧n͘g fr̶ǫm ̡yo​͟ur eye͢s̸ ̛l̕ik͏e liq​uid pain, the song of re̸gular exp​ression parsing will exti​nguish the voices of mor​tal man from the sp​here I can see it can you see ̲͚̖͔̙î̩́t̲͎̩̱͔́̋̀ it is beautiful t​he final snuffing of the lie​s of Man ALL IS LOŚ͖̩͇̗̪̏̈́T ALL I​S LOST the pon̷y he comes he c̶̮omes he comes the ich​or permeates all MY FACE MY FACE ᵒh god no NO NOO̼O​O NΘ stop the an​*̶͑̾̾​̅ͫ͏̙̤g͇̫͛͆̾ͫ̑͆l͖͉̗̩̳̟̍ͫͥͨe̠̅s ͎a̧͈͖r̽̾̈́͒͑e n​ot rè̑ͧ̌aͨl̘̝̙̃ͤ͂̾̆ ZA̡͊͠͝LGΌ ISͮ̂҉̯͈͕̹̘̱ TO͇̹̺ͅƝ̴ȳ̳ TH̘Ë͖́̉ ͠P̯͍̭O̚​N̐Y̡ H̸̡̪̯ͨ͊̽̅̾̎Ȩ̬̩̾͛ͪ̈́̀́͘ ̶̧̨̱̹̭̯ͧ̾ͬC̷̙̲̝͖ͭ̏ͥͮ͟Oͮ͏̮̪̝͍M̲̖͊̒ͪͩͬ̚̚͜Ȇ̴̟̟͙̞ͩ͌͝S̨̥̫͎̭ͯ̿̔̀ͅ

The key is to do with Chomsky grammer types.

You could say that in fact, the yorkshire grit pages are simple enough and regular enough that they have their own regular grammar structure and you could do it.  I tend to agree, but it would take you fourteen years and you would go madder than the chap above.

[slackline]

That rant starts off coherently then descends into madness.....which is I guess the point the author and yourself are making.

The second highest voted response was more what I had in mind as I would expect the site structure would be fairly regular.


The site is clearly off-line but beyond the Farcebook post from Francis Holland does anyone actually know Jon and why he has taken it off-line and if it will remain so?

[Johnny Brown]

From the OP:

I'm no longer interested in it myself

It would be shame if the database disappears though. I wonder what a fair market price would be?

[slackline]

From the OP:

I'm looking for donations to keep yorkshiregrit.com running. I'm no longer interested in it myself and I'll kill it off unless it pays for itself. Cost is £24 per month. I'll keep it running as long as the donations I receive cover the cost.

Does this mean donations have dried up again or is there another motive for killing it off given that was Jons stance over two years ago?

The site had sponsorship from the Depot and Metolius which will have helped contribute to covering the costs (at least upto October last year).

It would be shame if the database disappears though. I wonder what a fair market price would be?

  but have no idea.

[Paul B]

You're looking at quite a job to recreate this site; it's quite high function.  It's not just installing some already existing forum software, spanking on wordpress etc..

Do PHP and MySQL strike you as existing forum software? I'm aware it isn't simply 'spanking on wordpress'.

[shark]

Do PHP and MySQL strike you as existing forum software? I'm aware it isn't simply 'spanking on wordpress'.

I love it when you talk dirty 

[slackline]

You could say that in fact, the yorkshire grit pages are simple enough and regular enough that they have their own regular grammar structure and you could do it.  I tend to agree, but it would take you fourteen years and you would go madder than the chap above.

In light of yesterdays discourse this made me chuckle this morning...

[Will Hunt]

Nerdy code speak aside. If Jon is willing to give the YG.com database over to UKB then I'm sure there are enough people active in the area who would be willing to chip in with content. As JB says, I've no idea what the going rate for the database would be. This is Yorkshire Gritstone that we're talking about so it could actually be priceless.

[Johnny Brown]

My question was a tad rhetorical - I doubt there is a 'going rate' and it's worth whatever someone will pay for it.

[GCW]

Without being a party pooper, what would be the advantage of having a UKB database?

[slackline]

Without being a party pooper, what would be the advantage of having a UKB database?

Three things spring to my mind...

• The user-base who would* augment and grow it.
• Improved functionality over existing route databases (e.g. linking in pictures and video from outside of the site its hosted at, which the UKC log-book isn't currently capable of).
• With regards to Yorkshire Grit, not loosing a large amount of detailed and carefully organised information.

* actually "could" is probably more appropriate, it takes time and effort that not everyone has the inclination to spend on it as a quick perusal of those who edit the UKB WIki shows.

[Paul B]

It could also expand to cover other areas, not limited to bouldering which could benefit from more accurate information. In my eyes some of the more popular sport climbing areas could benefit from this.

[GCW]

With regards to Yorkshire Grit, not loosing a large amount of detailed and carefully organised information.

I don't see how YG would work as a pure database?

It could also expand to cover other areas, not limited to bouldering which could benefit from more accurate information. In my eyes some of the more popular sport climbing areas could benefit from this.

But aren't there databases out there already with this info?

[slackline]

It could also expand to cover other areas, not limited to bouldering which could benefit from more accurate information. In my eyes some of the more popular sport climbing areas could benefit from this.

  I've tried to setup up templates for venues on the wiki but a) its not really the most appropriate tool for actual problem/route descriptions, more for an overview of each area; b) its not had masses added (although I noticed Chris has been migrating some of the articles from Scottishclimbs wiki over as its soon to be taken off line too, nice one Chris  ).

The main drawback to any of it (Wiki or a route database) is that they rely on user input (and to some degree moderation/editing).  Prolific developers in the Peak (e.g. Bonjoy) do a great job not only developing and climbing new routes/problems but also recording them in the existing peakbouldering.info and reporting them here, but there is tons and tons of bouldering that isn't covered.  For example theres no North Wales or Lakes database that I know of.  Simon does a great job writing & publishing the guide and keeping new problems reported on the blog, and Greg C has done outstanding work with his Lakesblocs guides.  Similarly Dave Flannegan has done a great job developing the Eire guide, which until he got serious about publishing was available as free PDFs, but theres no database which users could add to themselves.

I think DBs would actually be useful for guide writers as its a simple way for them to collate new problems/routes being developed (albeit with the caveat that they will likely need checking if they are to go into any sort of publication, which in itself is no small task).

Another candidate, besides UKB, for developing such a database would be the BMC.

[slackline]

With regards to Yorkshire Grit, not loosing a large amount of detailed and carefully organised information.

I don't see how YG would work as a pure database?

It is was a database....with a WebUI front-end.

[SA Chris]

(although I noticed Chris has been migrating some of the articles from Scottishclimbs wiki over as its soon to be taken off line too, nice one Chris  ).

Cheers, I'm doing the Clova one, but it's punkpunk (and I think pebblespanker) who have done sterling work on the Croe and Lednock ones.

[GCW]

With regards to Yorkshire Grit, not loosing a large amount of detailed and carefully organised information.

I don't see how YG would work as a pure database?

It is was a database....with a WebUI front-end.

OK, I envisaged something more along the lines of UKC routes database.  A YorkshireGrit covering all the UK would be immense.

[Dave Flanagan]

Similarly Dave Flannegan has done a great job developing the Eire guide, which until he got serious about publishing was available as free PDFs, but theres no database which users could add to themselves.

Actually there is, http://www.theshortspan.com/newproblemdatabase/newproblemdatabase.php, it's just for recording new problems but it has been running a few years. Just a few lines of php.

[Johnny Brown]

I think Bleau.info and UKC have proved a database can and will be maintained mostly by users IF it is useful. That means a decent having logbook feature, which gives the carrot to persuade users to do the hard work of making it the most comprehensive knowledge base.

I'm a bit undecided as to whether a tight geographical remit is better than an unlimited one. I suspect it is, at least to start with. There are a bunch of failed or moribund unlimited databases out there already.

[Paul B]

How many of those had a community attached?

There's quite a lot of people on here who are keen about:
Peak Bouldering
Yorkshire Bouldering
Yorkshire Sport
Peak Sport
North Wales Bouldering
North Wales Lime

and other things...

Although some of those are serviced by wiki's or standalone sites my opinion is they'd be really useful / well used in a database attached to a forum such as this and with centralised maintenance. Love or loathe UKC their database is a stroke of genius and must be invaluable for Rockfax.