[Doylo]

A friend told me recently that 2 sessions a week starting a month beforehand should be sufficient PE training for a project. He said that any more and you'll get weak as the muscles get broke down.  I do believe him but was wondering what other peoples experiences are and what routines people have found good. I was thinking of getting stuck into 4 by 4's and some circuits on the board but its hard to make a specific circuit as the board is quite hard. ta

[chris_j_s]

I'm way below your level Chris but I find that I get better gains doing 3 sessions a week rather than 2. This is based on absolutely no SCIENCE at all though!

How many weeks are you planning on doing?

[Doylo]

I was planning on following my friends plan, 4 weeks before, but keen to here what others think. The sessions wil be quite intense though, i guess how many you do a week depends on this.

[JohnM]

I agree that making a good circuit on a board is hard.  We have managed to come up with a good PE circuit on our local board of about 40 moves as this was specific to my outdoor project.  The circuit is very continuous with no stopper moves but no rests so there is nowhere to hide.  I was doing it five times with 15 minutes rest in between with failure usually occurring near the end on the last set and it leaves you feeling destroyed.  The first thing I found was that I was climbing it too quickly compared to my outdoor project as I timed them both so I slowed it down and that made it even harder.  Whilst I don't know about muscle breakdown I found that trying to train on it in between trips outdoors was becoming counter productive as I was never fully recovered.  I had a week off it last week and the difference outdoors was unbelievable despite rubbish conditions.  I think I have made good gains from this style of training but I'm not sure about 4 by 4s.  I'm more inclined to replicate the number of moves and intensity of my outdoor projects without dropping off the board. 

[Serpico]

He said that any more and you'll get weak as the muscles get broke down. 

That's not true, you don't 'break muscles down', exercise can cause micro-trauma to muscle fibres under tension, in fact it may be one of the contributing factors to why muscle fibres enlarge and get stronger, so if you're worried about doing damage to your muscles I would definitely avoid any strength training like bouldering for instance. The reason why people can get weaker whilst doing a lot of endurance training is partly because endurance training contrasts to a degree with strength training, but mostly because all the time they spend training endurance is not spent training strength. Getting the balance right between the two is the hard part, that's why people periodize their training - you can't be at your strongest and at the same time be at your fittest. The best you can hope for is that you get the right mix of strength and endurance that suits your particular project. As for how much and how long it takes to build endurance, it varies from person to person.

[Doylo]

Cheers. John i need to set 40 moves too, roughly how many grades below the grade of your outside project was your board circuit out of interest? I agree its important to slow down on the circuits as its so easy to whizz along them especially when you have them wired which isn't realistic (unless you're Pete Robins). I could do with factoring a shit rest in on the circuit as there is one on the route (tho i've never got much back there before). I'm planning on supplementing the 2 training days with normal climbing days outside. Was planning on having bouldering sessions before the PE serps

[robertostallioni]

Doyle's back. 

[Doylo]

Doyle's back. 

back and as unfit as ever 

[JohnM]

I think the circuit feels about 8a especially if you climb it at a realistic pace and my outdoor project is 8b+.

[ghisino]

A friend told me recently that 2 sessions a week starting a month beforehand should be sufficient PE training for a project. 

yes, in my experience it's roughly the same. a 3 week-cycle + 1 week rest + 1 activation session will make me peak.
At least for shorter PE projects (eg short route with 15 consecutive hard moves, climbed at redpoint pace) coming from a bouldering base.

Longer routes and onsight fitness require more than that in my case.

He said that any more and you'll get weak as the muscles get broke down.

If more than 4 consecutive weeks of any kind of training don't break you down you're not training hard enough.

As for PE, maybe in some cases doing 2 consecutive cycles (eg 3 weeks volume oriented-1 week rest-2weeks max intensity) could be interesting, but i don't have science nor experience to back this up.






my exp. concerning exercises :
-circuits that take 1' to be climbed : good for short PE
-4x4 and similar stuff : good but pointless without a stopwatch.

-longer routes and onsight require yardage on easier roped climbs during the last month. Even as "active rest" days. I guess it's a matter of getting back into "least effort" mode more than anything else.

[nodder]

2 sessions a week for a mounth is only 8 sessions surely this wont give much of an increase?  Isnt it one session a week just to maintain a level?  Anyone know of a cool sport where training everyday actually makes you better, getting bored of being burnt off by people who spend most of their time resting. 
 


P.s Keep your filthy circits out of my mill.  Its all mine now.
   

[Big Dave]

Anyone know of a cool sport where training everyday actually makes you better, getting bored of being burnt off by people who spend most of their time resting. 
 
   

Darts?

[SA Chris]

Isn't darts resting anyway?

[Fultonius]

Resting is the most efficent form of training 

[abarro81]

Anyone know of a cool sport where training everyday actually makes you better, getting bored of being burnt off by people who spend most of their time resting. 

Climbing stamina routes?
Doyle: think adaptation time for this stuff is supposed to be 4-6 weeks. I'd have thought you'd ramp up to more than 2 sessions a week though..

[Doylo]

ye 8 sessions doesn't sound much to me either 

[nodder]

Anyone know of a cool sport where training everyday actually makes you better, getting bored of being burnt off by people who spend most of their time resting. 

Climbing stamina routes?

Really?  No wonder my training is so ineffecient, I appear to have misunderstood lots of things.  Oh well at least I'm having fun.

[abarro81]

How about some foot on campusing by the way? Nice way to nail yourself at the end of PE sessions - totally fucks you, and easy to try really hard as it's so basic. You can force yourself to hold each position for a few seconds before moving on too for maximum relevance.

[abarro81]

Nodder: A few thousand moves a day of aerocap should see you right. But you probably wont be having fun any more.

[Doylo]

Ye i've got some fingerboard, campus PE routines written down. Reckon they'll be good when can't face the circuits. Nodder i hope the Mill's still clean and orderly and hasn't turned into a giant system board....

[nodder]

Yeah tried that last summer. Strangely enough i was enjoying it so much i forgot to have any rest days and consitentlly failed to do any routes.  (a theme) Then I went bouldering in the autum and I was shit at that too.  Dont think my tiny mind can cope with more than one obsession at a time.  Maybe one day. 

But that is my point 1 month to improve something surely you have to do a shit load of hard work in that one month or its going to do fuck all. 

I dont know what Doylo is planning but I am guessing it involves climbing a route at least a grade harder than he is redpointing now.  If he can do that on 2 sessions a week I will eat my chalk bag.   

i hope the Mill's still clean and orderly and hasn't turned into a giant system board....

Rats the size of small dogs roaming in there recently.   The swallows have left for the wide world now though.

[ziggytang]

Ye i've got some fingerboard, campus PE routines written down. Reckon they'll be good when can't face the circuits. Nodder i hope the Mill's still clean and orderly and hasn't turned into a giant system board....

Fancy emailing me the fingerboard routine? I've recently bought a beastmaker but have no specific routine or psyche for it at the mo.

[Doylo]

I like rats!
Well one PE fingerboard routine i was told is 30 second hang, then 30 seconds off for ten minutes. Sounds good if all you can't be bothered with anything complicated! Gets yer boxed too

[Doylo]

I dont know what Doylo is planning but I am guessing it involves climbing a route at least a grade harder than he is redpointing now.  If he can do that on 2 sessions a week I will eat my chalk bag.   

was gonna do plenty of rock training too though

[chris_j_s]

I like rats!
Well one PE fingerboard routine i was told is 30 second hang, then 30 seconds off for ten minutes. Sounds good if all you can't be bothered with anything complicated! Gets yer boxed too

I was recommended laddering on alternate rungs at the end of a PE session:

I was trying to do 3 sets of 10 reps where 1 rep =

1-3-5-match-3-1-match  x2 (i.e. leading with each hand)


It was good for me - I made good gains without ever making it to the end of 3 sets, but if you found that too easy I guess that hanging on each rung for 3 or 4 secs would add exponentially to the difficulty!


EDIT: Oops, misread that quote as campus but the above may be of interest anyway!