[Fiend]

I might need to get a replacement car soon and am plundering the collective and generally relevant UKB Font(8c) of knowledge. I've browsed through this thread: http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,8713.0.html , that thread: http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,8075.0.html and t'other thread: http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,2241.0.html but would appreciate some up-to-date advice.

Budget:
£2000 ideally, could go closer to £3000 if really necessary.

Important:
Estate or saloon.
Large enough boot for pads and kit to live in.
Enough power to overtake comfortably...
...but as economical as possible with general running
(i.e. looking for acceleration boosts over top speed, very rarely exceed 80 anyway)
Reliable and economical to service etc.
Good stereo.
Ergonomic.

Preferred:
Rugged enough for Scottish winters.
AWD if feasible.
Automatic if feasible.

Not important:
Colour
Looks
Fashionability of make.


Have been reccommended a Subura Legacy estate by Mrs Rob Smith, although apparently not the 3L V6 boo. Going from the other thread, I'm picking up that Vauxhalls (cheap!), Volkswagen and Skoda estates/saloons might be good.

(I've been used to an ex-family car V70 XC, 2.5l AWD which is a fcking tank, super-solid and very ergonomic inside, also got plenty of beef for the size (190 bhp, 0-60 8/9s)....and does gallons to the mile and costs loads to fix. Looking to downsize from that obviously but not go too small and tinny.)

[Bubba]

Subarus are expensive to run and service.

And because I've got one I'll have to recommend the Ford Mondeo. Huge estate, nice to drive and as they were a fleet car they have depreciated very fast due to sheer numbers, so nice cheap ones about. Also untrendy as fuck.

[peewee]

I'd second that, the mondeo is a good car, economic and massive, mine dealt with last winter fine with snowsocks on the front tyres. make sure you get one either low mileage or has had the DMF replaced otherwise it could get costly.

[Fiend]

Cool forgot to mention Fords, had been browsing Focus and Mondeo, will take that into account.

[T_B]

You can get an 05/06 plate high mileage Focus estate for £2.5K. The 1.6Tdci is dead cheap to tax and insure, feels powerful enough and is v economical. It's boring as F, but it sounds like you don't care about that. I'm getting the Mondeo next 

[Wipey Why]

Subarus are expensive to run and service.

Very true, fun to drive though.

If you want some performance the Skoda Octavia Estates are fun, but not sure what you'll get for your budget.

By the sounds of it you want a diesel estate with lots of torque for overtaking whilst being able to keep running costs lowish when you don't have a lead foot. The level of performance required/you are used to will determine the size of the engine under the bonnet, but I would say that 1.6 would feel slow to me.

[Fiend]

By the sounds of it you want a diesel estate with lots of torque for overtaking whilst being able to keep running costs lowish when you don't have a lead foot. The level of performance required/you are used to will determine the size of the engine under the bonnet, but I would say that 1.6 would feel slow to me.

Aye... What indicates "lots of torque"??

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

 A quick search on Autotrader shows up a 2005 Honda Accord Tourer 2.2I CTDI SPORT in Keighley for less than £3k, not sure of mileage and several A6 Avants.

Don't be too afraid of higher mileage big diesels, my Honda has a first inspection of the timing chain at 120k miles.

Preferred:
Rugged enough for Scottish winters.

Can't recommend getting a set of proper snow tyres highly enough, £500 is a lot less than a 4x4.

[Fiend]

Aye... What indicates "lots of torque"??

Errr that will be the Torque spec on Auto-Trader then...

[T_B]

By the sounds of it you want a diesel estate with lots of torque for overtaking whilst being able to keep running costs lowish when you don't have a lead foot. The level of performance required/you are used to will determine the size of the engine under the bonnet, but I would say that 1.6 would feel slow to me.

The 1.6Tdci has 110bhp. It's fine for overtaking (though these days, I am more of a pootler....)

[Paul B]

Running costs of 4wd cars/tyre wear/parts to do with the 4wd sysem are going to be greater/more expensive than a 2wd car, just avoid anything with rear wheel drive.

1.6 Tdci engines must feel asthmatic and like I've said previously; I've always returned the best MPG out of the largest capacity engines I've owned from a 1.9 Tdi in a Punto (62 over its life) to a 2.5 Tdi in a t4. Currently I get an average of 61 mpg (unlike certain beastmakers I tend to leave the car in gear so no 841 miles to a tank from me).

Obi has a good point regarding tyres. I've recently equipped the fabia with some UniRoyal Rainsport 2's and the car is a different machine in the wet, plus the traction control hasn't kicked in once since the change either. I bet Winter tyres have a much greater effect. The same can of course be said about chains.

I'm pretty pleased with our Skoda and if I was looking to go for something bigger I wouldn't hessitate to sniff around the Octavia lineup, I'm not sure if a Fabia estate would be large enough? Bubbs' Mondeo is nice (especially inside) and I could see it being fantastic on long M/way journeys.

[Fiend]

Cheers Mr B. Have been looking into the Skoda line-up, the performance stats for Fabias seem to be appalling. Other stuff mentioned seems fine tho. I wouldn't be looking below 1.8 really, there is only so much one can tolerate.

[Paul B]

Cheers Mr B. Have been looking into the Skoda line-up, the performance stats for Fabias seem to be appalling. Other stuff mentioned seems fine tho. I wouldn't be looking below 1.8 really, there is only so much one can tolerate.

The tdi's actually have the same engines in them as the VRS (Audi engine) they just run a different map. Thats the thing with diesels, extra BHP and torque is always available on a stage 1 remap without getting scarily close to clutch failure etc.

[Wipey Why]

By the sounds of it you want a diesel estate with lots of torque for overtaking whilst being able to keep running costs lowish when you don't have a lead foot. The level of performance required/you are used to will determine the size of the engine under the bonnet, but I would say that 1.6 would feel slow to me.

Aye... What indicates "lots of torque"??

In simple terms torque is the turning force produced by the engine at a given speed. In real world driving it tends to be more useful than horsepower, which is torque x speed. Basically torque gives you omph to overtake instantly without having to rev the engine lots harder.

Turbo diesels generally produce lots of torque, but don't rev too hard. Whereas a similar normally aspirated petrol may produce more horsepower, but it will need lots of revs.

Does that help?

[chris j]

My 52 plate Focus estate has served me well over the last 10 years / 100000 miles. 1.8TDCi, 115hp, 50 - 55 to the gallon, good for overtaking. Failed its MOT today for the first time ever on rear brake discs being too thin, so nothing major has gone wrong with it.

Just big enough in the back to sleep in, plenty of space for pads etc.

Replaced it with a Skoda Octavia (though I still have the Focus for the missus to learn in), main reason being because the padding in the Focus driver's seat had deteriorated and it was doing my back in but I since found out there's people that can reupholster seats for not a huge amount of money. The Skoda is nicer on the inside than the Focus (it is 10 years newer) and much better for overtaking but then it's a 1.8TSi petrol that I just had remapped so that's hardly surprising... 

If you look at Focuses you'll probably be around that sort of mileage so check the timing belt's been replaced as that's the big job that needs doing around 95000, if the belt breaks then I'm told it can be a bit catastrophic for the engine.

[sjw]

My 52 plate Focus estate has served me well over the last 10 years / 100000 miles. 1.8TDCi, 115hp, 50 - 55 to the gallon, good for overtaking. Failed its MOT today for the first time ever on rear brake discs being too thin, so nothing major has gone wrong with it.

Either you have been lucky or I have been very unlucky! My 2001 1.8 tDi Focus Estate has been nothing but a nightmare since I bought it four years ago and I've had to spend buckets of money on it. It is a shame though because it's very good for long journeys and has got plenty of kick for overtaking.

With regards to smaller diesels, the missus has a 1.4 Yaris and the mpg is ridiculously high. We've been to Font twice in it and I'm still really surprised how comfortable it is on the motorway. Although it doesn't fit the above criteria, I love reciting the fact that we got 3 bouldering pads, 2 bikes and our kit for a month's holiday in the back with the seats down- it's a tardis!

[Adam Lincoln]

I have a Ford Focus as my weekday commuting car. Its great space wise, good on fuel, and fast enough for over taking. Bit plastic inside but not a problem really. I am going to get the mondeo estate version next, just that bit bigger and crusier...

[ducko]

you can get vauxhall astra diesels there great cars my mate gets 65mpg out of his on a run! and lots of space!

[tommytwotone]

Either you have been lucky or I have been very unlucky! My 2001 1.8 tDi Focus Estate has been nothing but a nightmare since I bought it four years ago and I've had to spend buckets of money on it....

Guess it's a luck thing really - no matter what you do there are always a few "friday afternoon" ones coming off the production line, doesn't make it any easier if you get stuck with one though.

Bit of a leftfield suggestion Fiend, but what about a van?

Worth considering if you don't have back seat passengers, plus you could convert the back for weekends away. Before I decided to be sensible and save up for a house deposit I was considering a car-based van (Astra, VW Caddy or similar), big enough for when you want it to be van, but still car-enough like for it to be managable the rest of the time.

Just a thought...

[mloskot]

I've seen Subaru Forester in decent shape for less than 3300 GBP. Also, older versions of Peugeot 307 SW should be available for this money.

[tomtom]

Have a look at golf estates... For some reason they're much less than the equivalent saloon.. And underq the skin the same as an octavia (but made in Germany)... Should be plenty of 03-05 1.9tdi estates around for that ££££

[Teaboy]

If you're after an inexpensive car I think the starting point should always be a Ford Focus or Mondeo, and then benchmark other cars against these. I had an old model Mondeo 2.0TDCi which would be in your price range which I've just replaced with a new model estate version, whihc is absolutely massive. Neither are particularly fuel efficient (~45mpg) but plenty fast enough for over taking.

[Paul B]

Before I decided to be sensible and save up for a house deposit I was considering a car-based van (Astra, VW Caddy or similar), big enough for when you want it to be van, but still car-enough like for it to be managable the rest of the time.

Just a thought...

I found my caddy to be pretty annoying. It didn't seem to do anything all that well and it wasn't as fun to drive as the t4, a six speed version might solve one of my main gripes as it runs at fairly high motorway revs. However those odd times you need a backseat (NOT  ) it was a little annoying.

[Wipey Why]

Before I decided to be sensible and save up for a house deposit I was considering a car-based van (Astra, VW Caddy or similar), big enough for when you want it to be van, but still car-enough like for it to be managable the rest of the time.

Just a thought...

I found my caddy to be pretty annoying. It didn't seem to do anything all that well and it wasn't as fun to drive as the t4, a six speed version might solve one of my main gripes as it runs at fairly high motorway revs. However those odd times you need a backseat (NOT  ) it was a little annoying.

I'm glad you've said that about the Caddy. I was looking at one quite seriously before I ordered the company car and eventually decided I couldn't be bothered with something practical(ish) and ended up going for something fast(ish).

[Jaspersharpe]

I'm glad you've said that about the Caddy. I was looking at one quite seriously before I ordered the company car and eventually decided I couldn't be bothered with something practical(ish) and ended up going for something fast(ish).

What did you end up getting?