[tomtom]

Ooh... never head the long shins excuse reason, excellent - another justifrication for when I get burnt off by short arses normal sized people 

[nik at work]

Do you not think that Ben's Roof might be a bit harder if you can't reach the left hand crimp, slot, sidepull, thing with the knee bar still in? Most people can't reach that.

Given that I can reach the left hand crimp, slot, sidepull, thing with the kneebar still in I'd assume that most people can reach that. I say this as one of the shorter members of the UKB midget collective.

[dave]

I think there's more than one kneebar to be had on bens - pretty sure some shorties have done it with multiple kneebars.

[Darren S]

For a few of the problems I can remember doing in the peak;

Blazin 48's 8a
Walk on by 7c+
Terrace 7c (felt hard for me and wouldnt argue with 7c+ but thats grades for you)
Brad pitt 7c
submergence (matching) 7c
WSS 7b+ ( even without the pebble, people find this hard only because they have no technique  )
Giza 7b (flashed this the same day after doing the terrace, Percy trying to sand bag me on that one)

[Andy B]

Do you not think that Ben's Roof might be a bit harder if you can't reach the left hand crimp, slot, sidepull, thing with the knee bar still in? Most people can't reach that.

Given that I can reach the left hand crimp, slot, sidepull, thing with the kneebar still in I'd assume that most people can reach that. I say this as one of the shorter members of the UKB midget collective.

That's strange. I spent a fair bit of time there last summer while a mate projected it, and the only people who I saw who were able to do that were tall. I can't, and my mate, who has a slighty larger reach than me couldn't.

I think there's more than one kneebar to be had on bens - pretty sure some shorties have done it with multiple kneebars.

The second kneebar is really marginal and poor compared to the main one. I'm not really sure if it's worth the effort for the weight it takes as it's hard to place correctly and pretty painful too. Kanye and Emma sacked it off pretty quickly.

[dave]

maybe their shins are too long/short.

[nik at work]

I definitely got it with the kneebar still in, although I am prepared to accept that I'm odd. A friend of a similar size could also get the hold but found it impossible to release the kneebar without swing off so instead utilised some bicycle type footwork shenanigans. I'd say reaching the hold was OK but taking out the kneebar was the hard bit (still easier than Powerband though...)

I am definitely a stump, 5'6" on a tall day. Dunno how long my shins are though...

In fact I met you down at the Tor didn't I? Probably summer 2009 I'd guess??

Ah the joys of grading.

[Paul B]

I certainly can't get it with the kneebar in place. Didn't the real shorties who used the kneebar get soe filthy non undercut to remove the knee and then get the LH hold?

[dave]

Curtailing the swing after using the kneebar is by far the crux of the problem when done that way, really body tensiony and quite tiring, i.e. you can get to the move fully fresh, get out of the kneebar and then just fade like fuck on the next move, even if you can do that move a dozen times on the trot in isolation. Pretty satisfying when it works though.

[Andy B]

I certainly can't get it with the kneebar in place. Didn't the real shorties who used the kneebar get soe filthy non undercut to remove the knee and then get the LH hold?

You use the filthy non undercut to place the second knee bar if you use it (another reason not to, as that undercut is grim). If you don't use the second kneebar you can use a nicer hold to get into the bicycle for the move to the sidepull slotty thing.

A big issue when trying to reach and use the slotty sidepull off the kneebar is arm angle. The smaller you are the less vertical your arms are when releasing the kneebar and the more violent and tensiony curtailing the swing out is.

[nik at work]

I am definitely a proper shorty.

I definitely got the left hand slot/sidepull/crimp thing with the kneebar still in (I only used one kneebar). I might have used a toe hook or something to get the kneebar out, can't really remember, but taking it out was the hard bit (harder for the short ). Honestly once I'd worked out a sequence reaching the slot with the kneebar in was pretty steady. Maybe I was using a different kneebar to everyone else

[Paul B]

I am definitely a proper shorty

sex change recently?

[blacky]

I guess that move may have fitted me quite well.

After I got the incut thing with my left i stabbed a foot up on to the big pinch before swinging feet onto the sidewall. Once I got that move sorted i knew i could do it reliably, provided i didn't fall off the start! I guess this is the reason i think the knee beta makes it much easier, because it increases your percentage on getting through the crux and it's just  a matter of holding it together after that.

I'm not saying i found it easy, just no harder than powerband. Also, when i tried staminahumps subsequently that problem felt a LOT harder.

[Dutch]

The Storm felt like 7b+ for me unless you were to use a toe (7c)

 

I'll take that

[dave]

I'll take that

and party?

I think when I did the storm I said 7a+. Probably a bit harsh in retrospect.

[Dutch]

Just a tad!

I think the issue with problems like the storm is that it does feel easy when you do it because of the kind of climbing.  You can't really snatch between good holds and get away with it because the holds are actually pretty toss.  It felt fairly straightforward when I did it but that's ignoring the 3/4 (5,6,7....) sessions I'd had on it before where I couldn't hold the holds, get my foot up, rock over etc.

[nik at work]

I am definitely a proper shorty

sex change recently?

:)Damn Dave and his funky jive talk...

[benpritch]

Just a tad!

I think the issue with problems like the storm on gritsone is that it they does feel easy when you do it them because of the kind of climbing.  You can't really snatch between good holds and get away with it because the holds are actually pretty toss.  It felt fairly straightforward when I did it but that's ignoring the 3/4 (5,6,7....) sessions I'd had on it before where I couldn't hold the holds, get my foot up, rock over etc.

[Yossarian]

The UKB midget collective.

Didn't I hear that you guys are on tour this year with Carter USM and Ned's Atomic Dustbin ...?

[Dutch]

Just a tad!

I think the issue with problems like the storm on gritsone is that it they does feel easy when you do it them because of the kind of climbing.  You can't really snatch between good holds and get away with it because the holds are actually pretty toss.  It felt fairly straightforward when I did it but that's ignoring the 3/4 (5,6,7....) sessions I'd had on it before where I couldn't hold the holds, get my foot up, rock over etc.

Let's change it simply to Re: issue: Downgrade Peak Limsestone/Cash for grades

[abarro81]

I can reach the undercut crimp on Ben's Roof easily from the knee bar, but couldn't do it that way because the release was too hard - IMO, even if you're 6ft 2 it's easier to use the 'shorties' way and get it after taking out the knee.

[Nan]

The left hand chicken head at on Ten Inch Zombies at eatswood has snapped off seems a lot harder now, didn't do it so can't suggest a grade.  Thought i'd mention it as it seems to be a pretty recent change and could effect the guide.

[The Sausage]

What about Brad Pit, surely this isn't 7c+?

Same with Ben's Roof; yeah, the old way was 7c+ but the knee beta means a lot of people could now eliminate the hardest bit (like i did).

I'd be happy to take 7c for both. I don't really understand why these aren't being down-graded and other things are; surely these are stand-out discrepancies as they are well known, classic problems?

I also think WSS should be 7c now but more debateable.

Anybody who thinks Ben's roof is the same the grade as WSS should have their opinion automatically disregarded...

[Bonjoy]

The left hand chicken head at on Ten Inch Zombies at eatswood has snapped off seems a lot harder now, didn't do it so can't suggest a grade.  Thought i'd mention it as it seems to be a pretty recent change and could effect the guide.

Some chump must have used it as a foothold. That or the phantom eatswood chipper again. Random chicken heads and flakes have come off over the years, often not holds, which would suggest it might be the work of local youths or the farmer. Either way, grrrr! It'll be at the least a grade harder now I'd have thought. Is there anything left of it, or is there nothing left to pull on?

[Nan]

Nothing left worth much really. Was trying it using the right hand slopey chicken and a left hand in a slopey crease just left of it then up to more nothingness which leaves you quite far right of the good hold in the face. You will have to go and see if you can make something work on it