[Nan]

From the point of view of someone who's spent way too much time on Churnet 6's;

-The little groove (problem 10 in the old guide) right of the undercut and sloper problems at Wright's Rock is never 5+, maybe I'm using a completely duff sequence but it felt around 6b (and miles harder than the 6a just right of it)

Agree

-Jill the Traverse is way too hard for 6b unless you can lank past the crux, 6b+ or even 6c in my book

Harder than 6b even if you can lank past it, 6c would be fair

-Problem 2 at Gentleman's Rock (the problem furthest left starting from a low ledge and finishing on jugs) should be 6b rather than 6c

Rekon 6C if you do moon jumper version off this (to the rail using the flake) 6b to the brake.

-The central part of the Virgin Wall Traverse is probably too easy for 6b+, especially compared to some of the other traverses of a similar difficulty in the area

No idea not done

-Each of the sit starts at Cottage Rocks (the 6a and the 6b) should go up half a grade also imo.

These seemed fine as they where to me.

Others for the area would be Bizarre 7b or 7b+ would be closer to the grade. High Speed Imp Act is 7a imo Fingers the same.

Also like to say that I agree with coments about the fin at Gib being more like 7a found it tough compared to other things around there.

[Sidehaas]

On High Speed Imp Act, this was only my second '7a' and I wouldnt give it more than 6c+ (if anything it felt more lie 6c - I almost flashed it).  Couldnt believe it gets 7a+ (I think?)

Is Jill the traverse the one at Gentleman's, or is that a different one?  The long traverse at Gentleman's was hard for the grade, cruxy.

[i_a_coops]

**H Top (the standing start to Danny's Problem on the business boulder, IIRC) is surely damn hard for 7a....

 

[joeisidle]

On High Speed Imp Act, this was only my second '7a' and I wouldnt give it more than 6c+ (if anything it felt more lie 6c - I almost flashed it).  Couldnt believe it gets 7a+ (I think?)

Is Jill the traverse the one at Gentleman's, or is that a different one?  The long traverse at Gentleman's was hard for the grade, cruxy.

Yeah it's the long left to right traverse at gentleman's. With regards to HSIA can't really see how it could be 6c/+ especially compared to the 6c nose problem to the right of it, seems to be a world of difference between the two to me (bear in mind I'm short, haven't managed either and can't dyno for shit though so apply mounds of salt liberally to all of the above).

[Nan]

Think soft 7a is fair for high speed theres plenty of softer 7a's about most of which have already been mentioned.  Being short would make high speed quite a bit harder as its big moves between good holds.

Oh as mentioned by someone else the pink wall eliminate at roaches upper tier (right of joes arete) is no more than 6c imo too.
Anyone else think that minstral start on calcutta buttress is nails for the 6a it gets? might have missed something with it but it felt more like 6b+

[a dense loner]

**h top has never seen 7a, its at least 7b

[grumpycrumpy]

Just to give another view, I thought Tiger was ridiculously easy for 6A. Pull on with two good crimps and reach for a jug? 

You are a crimp hero who can boulder significantly harder than 6A (like 5 or 6 full grades or something), so your opinion on the grade of crimpy problems that are so far below your level will be like Sloper trying to give an opinion on how much better KFC is compared to Burger King; or me trying to differentiate between 4 and 4+.

I find doing Tiger first go just as hard as doing The Green Traverse (no heels obviously) first go. In fact, to give it a local comparison, I find it to be the same difficulty as Attitude Inspector.

No wonder I don't write guide books.

As a crimp nobody with fingers like soggy noodles I can definitely say that on the few times I've been on this ( after being encouraged by the good Mr Sharpe of this parish who told me it 'was a peice of piss ' and then ably demonstrated how to do it  ) it feels fucking desperate .....

Plus I'm probably one of the few members of this forum who CAN tell the difference between a 4 and a 4+ and the vagaries in the guidebooks for problems around those grades are considerable ......

Cleo's Arete is hard for 5+ , but I don't think it warrants 6a ( it only took me two sessions to sort it out , compared to the four I spent on pebble arete ) and strangely I don't find it as hard as the arete on the sheep ( ? ) which gets a 5 ( I don't think I'm the only person who finds this particular problem tricky ) ......   

[fatdoc]

**h top has never seen 7a, its at least 7b

[JacobJacob]

"Gibbering right" at Gib Tor is hard for 6C+ and a good problem. I rekn it should get 7A.

[dontfollowme]

"Gibbering right" at Gib Tor is hard for 6C+ and a good problem. I rekn it should get 7A.

I agree with this.

[Eddies]

I dont... Theres nothing wrong with any of the grades at Gib Torr.

[saltbeef]

**h top has never seen 7a, its at least 7b

agreed

[kingholmesy]

Tiger is nowhere near 7a. 6b maybe.

  6b+ absolute tops.

[rich d]

At last something I feel qualified to talk about. As a weak punter tiger feels much harder than 6a, I'd say top end 6b/6b+

[al123]

here's a punters opinion on a few punter problems that no one else is bothered about.

Tiger 6b/6b+. its hard.
remergance and hanging rib both 6b
strawberries 6b+ or maybe even 6c 
all stuff at secret garden gets a point added on because they are all bloody hard.
roof 2 at over owler tor. 6c? felt hard for a v4 and looks like a hold has broken off?
NTBTA 6c.
the smeary one at burbage south without the crack 6a/6a+
the v4 next to west arete at burbage west 6c for anyone under 7ft. 
sorry for bringing up problems that no one really cares about 

[account_inactive]

I'd resisted until now...............but hey ho:

Terrace - 7b+ seems fair as it's only a touch harder than Zaff's
Arete@Remergance - This is closer to 6c than 6b.  Much harder than Remergance
Blind date - Standard 7b+.  Use a heel if you are small
Blind Fig - 7c.  Did I see this in the 7+8's as soft?  Check the YYFY starting post by Jim for grade slip
WSS - Didn't do this when the pebble was on but 7b+ seems fair for this style.  Easy to repeat so hard to grade. Sit start adds a bit
Early Doors is easier that Gorilla
Brass Monkey's - 7c if you are short. 7a if you dab like Cowboyhat 
Press 7b+
Strawberries shouldn't be in the guide as it's log and easy

BenP just said that all we do is downgrade stuff in the Peak as there are no new problems to climb and this is what people do to express themselves.  I kinda agree. I also think that grit is hard to grade as problems are easy to repeat.  I can't think of anything on grit that I've done that I couldn't re-climb again in a couple of goes or at worst a session, that couldn't be said for granite/Font/Cave etc

Oh and can someone please name a new route 'Soft 10 mins'.  Thank you

[Eddies]

Strawberries is easy for limestone lovers and hard for grit-stoners... generally.

[Dr T]

Arete@Remergance - This is closer to 6c than 6b.  Much harder than Remergance

Hmm I know a lot of people think the arete is harder than then mantle...
speaking for me 'tis the other way round, but then I suck at mantles...

Early Doors is easier that Gorilla

Gorilla is more thuggy, Early doors is more technical/techniquey - I found the current grades about right but then thuggy suits me better than technical/techniquey

BenP just said that all we do is downgrade stuff in the Peak as there are no new problems to climb and this is what people do to express themselves.  I kinda agree.

[Jim]

Arete@Remergance - This is closer to 6c than 6b.  Much harder than Remergance

Hmm I know a lot of people think the arete is harder than then mantle...
speaking for me 'tis the other way round, but then I suck at mantles...

mantle?
do you mean rock over. people only find this hard because they do nothing with their trailing leg

[Dr T]

mantle?
do you mean rock over. people only find this hard because they do nothing with their trailing leg

Mantle onto the slab...
Rock over onto the slab...

whatever you call it's not something I excel at, too much limestone and plastic and not enough grit I suspect...

On another point I do find from a personal point of view there's a big fistful of "if I can do it it can't be such and such a grade" involved in this sort of discussion.
This is especially true when coming back to a rock type/area after a long break, maybe due to living in the south ( ) or due to the rock being out of season, during which the person in question has got stronger/more skilled on plastic/other rock types etc leading to the idea that the grades must be soft.
I have this problem when grading at the wall I set at, I never grade anything harder than 7a+ (actually I graded something 7b last week but will probably fold and write it up as 7a+) because I have a block that anything I can could possibly be harder than that despite the fact that I've climbed 7b+ on a number of rock types and on plastic (naturally those problems must have been soft).
Whether or not this is a reaction against the young turks that go around spraying about all the inflated grades they think they've climbed and the "less decent" local walls that seem to happy put up "ego grades" to keep the punters happy I don't know....
This has probably drifted a little off topic but its what has been bouncing around my head whislt reading this thread...

[blacky]

What about Brad Pit, surely this isn't 7c+?

Same with Ben's Roof; yeah, the old way was 7c+ but the knee beta means a lot of people could now eliminate the hardest bit (like i did).

I'd be happy to take 7c for both. I don't really understand why these aren't being down-graded and other things are; surely these are stand-out discrepancies as they are well known, classic problems?

I also think WSS should be 7c now but more debateable.

Agree with Kudos upgrade (original way is nails!)
Agree with Terrace 7c
The Storm felt like 7b+ for me unless you were to use a toe (7c) Giza felt similar to the storm (but i didn't do it)

I think Blind Date could be hard 7b but blind fig defo 7c and super-conditionsey.

Out of interest, what's Columns (Roaches, Tetris Block) going in at, 7c+?

[Andy B]

Do you not think that Ben's Roof might be a bit harder if you can't reach the left hand crimp, slot, sidepull, thing with the knee bar still in? Most people can't reach that.

[cofe]

some long-shinned twats can't even get the knee bar in.

[Andy B]

Long shins has to rank as one of my favourite excuses. Are you sure it's not just poor ankle flexibility?

[cofe]

I've got longer shins than The Sausage I'll have you know. We measured them. It was a real 'Brokeback' experience.