[Oldmanmatt]

Power needs to be trained at loads of 30-60% of max, at as high velocity as possible for the given load. Very very few people can train power by pulling footless.

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Regardng the last sentence. This depends on the available equipment. If you are using a Campus board, sure, because most people lack the finger strength/conditioning.
However, if you take finger strength as separate issue during initial build up; a bar provides all you need. Starting with pull-up catches (where you pull up dynamically and briefly release the bar at the apex of the move), progressing through pull-up claps, Pull-up reaches (reaching as high above the bar as possible with each hand in turn) and eventually Muscle -ups.
Also, over sized Campus rungs or a rigid Bachar ladder, allow for a phased intro into footless Campusing.


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[jwi]

If you can do a single pullup (two arms) at or close to double bodyweight, by all mean train to increase power by doing quick pullups, otherwise some form of aid is needed. Steep board climbing w/ long moves?

[Nibile]

Ok so that workout is a bit of everything.

But the campus routine, that is training power yeah? Or not at all? Or is the criticism that it is inferior to, say, a plyometric campus routine? Sorry if this is a dumb question...

Asking cos strength is not one of my weaknesses but "going for it" is, which is possibly because of a lack of power (as well as general technical crapness). I am looking to address this weakness in the coming months through embarking on some form of campus routine but currently shopping around for what to actually do this nice I get under the board.

As others have said, speed is the essential component of power. So, to increase power you need to work at speed, whatever you do.
Regular campusing isn't fast enough, it's a bit more grinding through, and there also could be the fingers limiting factor.
Fast pull ups on a bar could be a good way to go, but as of late I'm getting more and more interested in full body power, because it has a greater effect on overall power output, nervous recruitment, etc.
So, I'm doing hill sprints, boxing bag, Olympic-style lifting, and even normal weights, focusing on speed.
Contrast training is also very useful and effective, but you have to be prepared.

In any case, if you feel that "going for it" is your weakness, I don't think it's related to power. To me it seems more a matter of "knack", of trying to latch the next hold despite being close to falling. I think that you could see good gains by practicing quite dynamic climbing, using holds that you can't lock off, so that you get used to go for it in an all out effort.
On the other hand, you can still become so strong that "going fo it" isn't anymore necessary.
 

[Murph]

Thanks chaps lots of powerful advice here much appreciated.

I guess I'm drawn to the campus board because it seems pretty systematic to record training sessions and thereby set the bar higher next time. At least that's the attraction compared to limit bouldering where more variables and distractions  come into play. But it isn't the only option and, as nibs said, could just be ground out which won't help with power much/at all.

Thanks specially for the pull up variation ideas. It's not just about weighted slow pulls with "good" form. Think I can make that work actually.

And as to the "become so strong" suggestion.... haha, yes of course for a specific problem but then it wouldn't be the limit any more, surely?! 

[Murph]

If you can do a single pullup (two arms) at or close to double bodyweight, by all mean train to increase power by doing quick pullups otherwise...

Hello, are you saying I would need to do 2x bw pull ups to train power on a pull-up bar? I can do nowhere near that, surely just doing some pull ups quickly with the aim of getting air time etc, as per OMMs suggestion would be a solid road to seeing gains?

[tomtom]

Reading this article makes my elbows hurt :D

[Oldmanmatt]

I would say I was quite strong, but I have a PB of 64kg additional for 3 reps @75kg BW.
For ref, I can 1:5:7 on medium (24mm) rungs and 2:6:9 (matching) on large (34mm) rungs with a 4kg weight belt. (21cm spacing).
I know this is "average" or "meh" as Campusing goes.


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[Brannock]

Steve House has a new website, mostly around selling training plans/coaching but also has some articles on Alpinism/mountain running/skimo etc.

[jfdm]

http://willanglin.squarespace.com
Wealth of info this site.

[jfdm]

What goes on during lattice test.
I'd love to have a go but don't meet the entry requirements just yet.

[slackline]

http://willanglin.squarespace.com
Wealth of info this site.

Will Anglin Ask Me Anything (AMA) on /r/climbharder 2017-01-08 thread might be posted Friday (2017-01-06) for questions to accrue.

[thekettle]

Not strictly climbing, but for those that strength train off the wall, I think this is an excellent read. All about taking a biomechanically sound approach to strength training, reducing stress on the joints and spine:
https://www.amazon.com/Congruent-Exercise-Weight-Training-Easier/dp/1467930415

[jfdm]

One for the dead hangers, top work from Dave.

[moose]

Looks very similar to the Lopez protocol:



My own  Lopez derived regime, employed when enthused / ovewhelmed by the difficulty of a project, is to calibrate by finding the max added weight for a 13s hang.  Then, each session, after a suitable warm-up (I do 6x7/3s repeaters on a 18mm edge, followed by the same on 14, 12, and 10 mm edges) I do a progression of 10s hangs at 50%, 80%, and 90% of the max. 

The meat of the session is then 10s hangs at the max added weight (as many as I can manage, generally 5-8). 

Every 3-4 weeks I change to a different sized hold (I tend to alternate between 18mm and 12-14mm - any smaller and skin loss / pain raher than finger strength seem to become limiting).   

Main problem using big holds is that the amount of added weight for 2 arm hangs can become intolerable.  I  had a few sessions of putting on the weight belt / weighted harness etc, falling over, and being unable to stand up!  One-armers with a pulley and assistance are more comfortable - the sessions just take a little longer. 

Currently in such a "max hang" phase, scared into it by  how weak I feel after a long hiatus from fingerboarding (just used a woodie instead over winter).  Thankfully, I am slowly reverting to my old marks.  When I do, given that I have a power-endurance project, I think changing to Probes' 5x5x5x5 routine would be appropriate - I recall that programme felt horrendous, which suggests it was beneficial!  Incidentally, although the calibration routines are different, I found that the actual amount of added weight (or assistance for one-armers) was similar to the Lopez routine (i.e. similar added mass for 10s hangs 3 mins apart and 5x5s/5s repeaters, 5 mins apart).

http://crusherholdsclimbing.blogspot.co.uk/

[jfdm]

Eric Karlsson YouTube channel is fun to watch regarding indoor bouldering.
He's in America at the moment and created the following training videos with Will Anglin.

Overview

Power endurance

Shoulders

Body tension

[jfdm]

[slackline]

https://beta-angel.com/

[thekettle]

Fantastic link there Slackline, I would wad you if I could work out how

Recent resources I'd recommend are http://simplestrengthbook.com/ by Mercedes Pollmeier:
A good strength-progression book for those on the road or expedition,as no exercises need equipment. A nice profiling progression for coaches too, split into three basic movement categories: The press, the squat and the back bend. Not sure why pulling and the hip hinge have been excluded though. For serious climbers I think most of the progressions will be a bit too easy (hardest squat option is pistol, hardest press is 1hand/1leg push-up), but the back bend should give most a good challenge! All in all loads of good mobility and strength exercises well presented.

And also https://theclimbingdoctor.com/product/climb-injury-free-5/ by physio Jared Vagy:
Another injury book to complement Dave Macleods and Volker Schoffels, this one is very much a DIY rehab book, with good clear progressions for a selection of common injuries. Nice to see nerve glides in there alongside the usual stuff. The movement advice given at the end of each program is very basic and sometimes dodgy (eg 'to avoid pulley injuries, perform more static movements'), and sometimes contradicts a different piece of advice. Also slightly too many [43 pages of] glossy-photo'd celebrity endorsements (what do they know about injuries, are they doctors?) and shirt-off finger rehab shots for my uptight English tastes.

[Oldmanmatt]

An interesting PDF that popped up in my inbox this week, with a collection of articles etc.

Not read it all yet, busy getting ready to open tomorrow...

https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/61885731/A_Turner_2018_-_Advanced_Strength_and_Conditioning20200124-55933-1uebfe3.pdf?1579899223=&response-content-disposition=attachment%3B+filename%3DAdvanced_Strength_and_Conditioning.pdf&Expires=1618044265&Signature=bYNbEjOrBRde6ObnU5fKV8qL7s6T8UFkHdnl9DJdLZ3stlRSM12TWYkN4-gnZje4YiJ3dWIytXZcS40VGKwoLwhe6IljDxYIq2hk4E8Sld7cAUPMBBlZDE6MXWaXTBPJ-y~1EfpuRVls2pxMvZG~9Y7nOAkI536eFU5rDs5V0jbLaRaE2tNc-bjMhzBZ~Q87XXV~EClGzOAhNa0YYMiermoBKncR3Murro4d-kPFJP91dj5fpGHsD-TbowH7sPspaFgSPow53EQTO75vHrpxiIowXVlrGApaYzOa8pre6HxkHnst6aouKteFUS8FU08kk0ZKIiOFsBSwNVCgXcxKjw__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA


And, instantly, somebody can’t open the direct link. No idea why.

Here’s the Academia page with the  link:

https://www.academia.edu/41727090/Advanced_Strength_and_Conditioning?auto=download&email_work_card=download-paper

[mrjonathanr]

I’ll have look at that, thanks. Looks like something to dip into rather than read start to finish. I notice Chapter 9 is written by Tim Gabbett, looking forward to reading that. He’s an authority on managing high workload and injury prevention in case you’re not familiar with him, known for his chronic vs acute load approach: The training—injury prevention paradox: should athletes be training smarter and harder?

[jwi]

Nice article about how supplements likely make you a worse athlete, even when they have some small positive effect on average.

https://www.outsideonline.com/health/training-performance/sweat-science-performance-supplements/

paradoxically, taking what seems like a shortcut to better performance can nudge you toward doing a worse job on the basics.

A 2011 study in Taiwan illustrates this. Researchers gave a group of volunteers an inert supplement, telling half of them that it was a multivitamin and the other half that it was a placebo. Both segments thought they were helping with consumer product research, providing feedback on the size, shape, and texture of the pill. Then they completed a series of bogus consumer tests while the researchers monitored their behavior. While testing a pedometer, for example, those who thought they’d taken a multivitamin didn’t walk as far as the placebo group; at lunch, they were more likely to overdo it at the buffet table than to select the healthy organic option.

(here is a link to the study: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797611416253 )
(The litterature on the self-licencing bias is substantial and rapidly growing.)

I've always said that the way to figure out if a supplement work is to check if it is on FIDE's list of banned substances, but I think this argument might be even better:

These disadvantages might be worth tolerating if any of them really did deliver a significant edge. What would that look like? Think of the recent furor over carbon-plated running shoes: a demonstrated performance boost of as much as 3 percent has completely upended the sport. The reason supplements haven’t had a similar impact isn’t because they’re a secret that only Andrew Huberman’s listeners know about. It’s because they don’t work in any meaningful way.

Argue how much Creatine help you below this line
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[Dingdong]

I did a full year (2022) of non cycled creatine and a year without (2023) and I couldn’t tell any difference tbh

[User deactivated.]

Argue how much Creatine help you below this line
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Interesting. Whilst the study confirms that most people in a population will take a supplement then train less hard / eat worse / etc., this cannot apply to those who are completely devoted to the church of training and diet! I (for example) would never miss a training session or try less hard due to using creatine because I train with set percentages or RPE caps and record everything I do in a training diary and count my macronutrient intake every day. Therefore, the proven benefits of creatine should apply, as have been shown in countless studies and meta analyses and are now almost universally accepted.

Bias disclaimer - I've been using creatine monohydrate daily for over 10 years based on the positive research and trivial financial cost. Whenever I've taken a small break, I lose around 1-2kg and a few reps off of my strength exercises. Of course this could be placebo but that does not matter to me.

[mrjonathanr]

Out of interest, how much do you take daily, Liam? And do you have a view on the merits of mono hydrate vs fancier versions? Asking for a friend. Thanks.

[petejh]

I always found I got worse forearm pump when taking creatine.

If using weight of evidence as your guide then there's more weight of evidence showing a performance benefit for creatine, beta alanine or high nitrate than there is for them showing worse performance due to 'licencing bias'. One study - which wasn't using creatine/BA/nitrate - showing a 'licence bias' is interesting but not very convincing.