[Fultonius]

The only place I've ever climbed that actually required 60s was Lofoten in Norway - there was a 55m pitch up a smooth slab with bolted belays. In fact, there was only 3 bits of gear and 2 bolts! Graded N6- which is usually about E1/E2  - found out it was considered E4 5c when we got home 

[dave]

I did a route at squamish where although I set the belays up as far as I could tell in the obvious positions as per the guide,  on one pitch I just about got to the belay on rope stretch, and that was with a brand new 60m rope (bearing in mind ropes tend to shrink as they age). The route was an old classic too, I couldn't understand it. I don't remember a belay position 15m higher than the one I used.

[Fultonius]

We got a right slagging in Squamish for using half ropes! They all seem to use a long single and carry a second thinner line for abbing.

[Andy B]

I did a route at squamish where although I set the belays up as far as I could tell in the obvious positions as per the guide,  on one pitch I just about got to the belay on rope stretch, and that was with a brand new 60m rope (bearing in mind ropes tend to shrink as they age). The route was an old classic too, I couldn't understand it. I don't remember a belay position 15m higher than the one I used.

Bearing in mind your recent route pedigree, I'd be inclined to think you missed something there. How long did it take you to find that classic slab in Mello? Oh, and how far did you get up the F5c once you'd found it?

[Norton Sharley]

Haven't read all the thread but have one thought.  I guess depends what you trad aims are but when I was climbing a lot of trad in Wales and on inland limestone I used to triple up on mid sized wires (rock 2/3 to rock 6/7) and would sometime still manage to have run out when faced with a perfect rock 4 placement.    Double for smaller and bigger was fine since micro wires and cams gave extra flexibility at either end.

 

Wires 3 x 1-5, 2 x 6 - 9
2 x RP's (especially for Lakes / Wales / Scotland)
14 quickdraws
Friends 0.5 - 4 (depending on rock type and route whether I'd carry them all)
Aliens - blue and green - ace for 'emergency' bang 'em in placements
2  x 2' slings, 2 x 4' slings
1 x skyhook if it's all looking a bit bold, blank and crack-less
2 x 50m 9mm ropes

Served me well enough for years.

I'd recommend popping to Outside and asking to see Uncle Jez, purveyor of fine racks for donkey's years (no pun intended wrt DFBWGC)

[Drew]

I have to say I was using a dyneema lanyard for all my mp sport routes / abs for ease.

Check out these then:




Or maybe just cut your old rope into a few 2m lengths, and tie some figure8s in each end.

Good call on the revolvers.

Word to that

[Bonjoy]

I use tricams quite often, at least half the time this is as standard nuts on webbing rather than in their camming mode. Treated like this they can be used instead of double/tripling up on equivilant sized nuts. Unlike the nuts they are replacing on your harness they have the added benefit of the camming function which can sometimes get you out of a tight spot when nothing else will fit, plus they are on sling rather than wire so are less likely to flick out of placement and you can get away with shorter extension.
Get a double set of ballnuts, obviously.

[Paul B]

Bearing in mind your recent route pedigree, I'd be inclined to think you missed something there. How long did it take you to find that classic slab in Mello? Oh, and how far did you get up the F5c once you'd found it?

Which one was this? On a small ish triangular shaped shield of rock above the luna hut? I found a F5c desperate up there.

[Johnny Brown]

I've never seen anyone use 'em on trad

And therefore thay must be shit? Have you been living in a shoe? I guess 'extreme' folk like yourself must regard them as some kind of uber-hex for turbo-bumblies.

[Andy B]

Bearing in mind your recent route pedigree, I'd be inclined to think you missed something there. How long did it take you to find that classic slab in Mello? Oh, and how far did you get up the F5c once you'd found it?

Which one was this? On a small ish triangular shaped shield of rock above the luna hut? I found a F5c desperate up there.

Don't give him excuses! I heard the one Dave failed on was piss.

[Fultonius]

I'm not a big fan of tricams. Got a few mates who rave on about them. They've both had one fall onto one and both times they ripped.

Not for me thanks! 

[Andy B]

I've fallen repeatedly onto the size one in what I thought was a marginal placement in a shallow sandstone break, as I mentioned above, I've fallen onto a size 0.5 in a shot hole on that route next to Tierdrop, and I'm sure I've fallen onto the size 0.5 a couple more times, but I can't  remember what on right now. I've never had or seen one rip, but I guess they will often be used in marginal placements as a last resort.

[Johnny Brown]

that route next to Tierdrop

I'd like to see someone lead that on nuts and cams! Can't understand why folk are so dismissive, must be a fashion thing.

[Will Hunt]

Come to think of it, Paul, tricams are right up your street. A very light and affordable alternative to smaller cams. They go in utterly everywhere and, unlike some other bits of kit, they do tend to be "crucial" where nothing else will go.

I stand by my ropes comment. It all depends on what you plan on getting up to. I know its a big stereotype and entirely false but I still have trouble seeing most UKBers heading up to the Orion Face or any larger walls. Its these situations when 60s come into their own, especially at grades you are comfortable with so that you can string together pitches.

Case in point some guys at Esk Buttress recently finished off their E4 as we topped out on Gargoyle Groove. I spies an in situ ab point and mention I have a pair of 60s. They were on them like a shot. Their 50s just wouldn't make the deck.

[slackline]

I have to say I was using a dyneema lanyard for all my mp sport routes / abs for ease.

Check out these then:

I find the Metolious Personal Anchor system to be far superior my personal preference as it allows for adjustable anchoring and each loop is rated the same as a small sling on a draw (unlike daisy-chains where each loop is about 2kN, yes I know that under static loading, as it should be when used in a belay, this is force is unlikely to be exceeded).



I've a couple of tri-cams on my rack and if I remember to rack them up will often use them.  A mate always places large ones which really pisses me off as I generally find them harder to remove than to place.

[Fultonius]

HAving never climbed on grit, maybe I'm missing the point of the tri-cams... 

[slackline]

HAving never climbed on grit, maybe I'm missing the point of the tri-cams... 

  Don't worry, it'll happen one day.

HAving never climbed on grit

As Will and Bonjoy have said, they're versatile, can be used passively like a nut or as a camming device and often fit in where cams don't.

They're still a ballache to get out sometimes though.

[Paul B]

Abbing Dinas Mot a few weeks ago was made easier having >50m ropes and if I go down the single skinny + a half then it'll be a 60 I'll go for to minimize the disparity in lengths between the two. Incidentally how much difference in diameter do you need to make abbing off an overhand a little sketchy?

[Johnny Brown]

how much difference in diameter do you need to make abbing off an overhand a little sketchy

Quite a bit. An 8.6mm and a 9.4mm would be okay, I'd avoid a 7.8mm and a 10.5mm though. You get problems of control as much as the knot rolling.

[Paul B]

how much difference in diameter do you need to make abbing off an overhand a little sketchy

Quite a bit. An 8.6mm and a 9.4mm would be okay, I'd avoid a 7.8mm and a 10.5mm though. You get problems of control as much as the knot rolling.

It'll be a 9.2 and a something else.

[Pantontino]

Here's a vote for 60m ropes - means you can get off a crag very quickly. Being able to ab nearly 200 feet in one go is so useful that I'll put up with the slight increase in weight and rope management faff. I got down from the top of Plexus buttress in a single ab the other night while mates with 50m ropes ended up walking round to the descent gully (where they had to do an ab anyway because it was wet).

Plus, if you get into winter climbing, you definitely want 60s.

I was unsure about Offsets until recently, but now I'm a fan. I did a route in Cwm Glas Bach last night and all the wires, bar one that I got were offsets. I did try the wallnuts first, but they just wouldn't seat properly. Obviously there will be some routes where you don't need them at all, but when you do they are a god send.

I reckon Dragon cams are awesome - easily the best cam I've ever used. The bigger sizes are especially good compared to other stuff that is available. So easy to handle and manipulate, plus incredibly light.

[Drew]

I find the Metolious Personal Anchor system to be far superior my personal preference as it allows for adjustable anchoring and each loop is rated the same as a small sling on a draw (unlike daisy-chains where each loop is about 2kN, yes I know that under static loading, as it should be when used in a belay, this is force is unlikely to be exceeded).

Aye. It is a good system, which equalises nicely. However it still suffers from the problems of breaking easily if used on it's own. With some rope in the system, it'll be fine in dozens of situations, but on stacked abs, you don't want to use the rope to attach yourself to the belay, because you need it for the ab, so attach yourself with some rope (i.e. the Beal thing, or an old rope chopped into Cow's Tails). Beal actually do one which has two lengths of rope: one has a krab to attach to the belay, they other is good for keeping your belay plate/fig8 on meaning less faff on your harness.

Actually, a friend of mine made something which works in multiple situations. Get 5 metres of rope. Double figure of 8 on both ends. Screwgate in each of those loops. Now you can equlaise two or three (with another krab) anchors easily, or use it for clipping into lower offs (it might need shortening slightly). The main problem is finding  a 5m length of dynamic rope. Most tat on the reel is static.

[Andy B]

A more noticeable issue with using different diameters will be the feel as you ab. They won't grip as nicely in your hand, and you'll find that one rope slides faster than the other, which can be a bit awkward or uncomfortable at times. It will be fine for occasional abbing though. At the end of the day you won't actually do that much abbing in Britain compared to on the continent. It is going to be most commonly a single, straight forward ab into a sea cliff. Personally given the choice between a walk off and an ab, I'd usually rather go for a little stroll.

[Paul B]

I'll be keeping the cable like rope as a fixed ab line for sea stuff (wise? F*ck maybe I need to buy Trad Climbing +  )

[Andy B]

If you have a static rope already that will be a very nice ab rope.

Everone will be able to give examples of when 60's have been useful, especially if they already happen to own 60's, but if you have shorter ropes there will almost certainly be easy alternatives. On the decent from the Mot for example, there are lots of potential belays and scambling options and lots have people decend it all time time using 45-50s without issues.

I guess it's about weighing up the occassions of usefullness against the extra cost, and faff the rest of the time. For me the balance falls on the side of 50's.

Of course this is all academic if you go for a single and a half, and need a 60 for sport climbs.