[Bonjoy]

Like Andy says statics are nice for ab ins if you have one or can get one cheap. They have the advantage that you can trail them through the mud, drop them in the sea, then leave them up all day for eveyman and his dog to use and not feel you're ruining a good climbing rope.

[dave]

This thread reminds me why we just go bouldering all the time.

[psychomansam]

sounds like you're getting sorted, but i found some of the advice here really useful:

 http://www.psychovertical.com/?rockrackgear

[Paul B]

Of course this is all academic if you go for a single and a half, and need a 60 for sport climbs.

If not a 70 to save me needing another next time I go abroad.

[Andy B]

You didn't mention that 70m were an option! I'd go for 70's every time. You can do nice long abs, miss out anchors,  and belay in Fort William when topping out on the Ben.

[wiain]

Paul, I hope it was only thr humungous array of shininess that was confusing. If it was my lad's patter I'll need to apply some  .

You didn't mention budget. You could get away with just more nuts and new draws if need be. Otherwise most of what Johnny said is on the money.

I have just spent the last few weeks accumulating bargains for a certain forthcoming event. If you want to pop over I can pimp you real good.

[Johnny Brown]

Aye. It is a good system, which equalises nicely. However it still suffers from the problems of breaking easily if used on it's own.

What nonsense. I bet there isn't a single record of one breaking in any real situation. On the occasional long route with bolt belays I do, I use a 60cm sling larks footed into my belay loop. As long as you don't take a >FF1 onto it, there's no problem. Its not something likely to happen by accident - a theoretical issue, not a real one.

If you are the type that can't cope with such worries, tie in with a fig 8, leave an extra long tail, and make that into a cowstail with another fig 8. Pissing about with seperate cowstails is for rope access.

[Paul B]

Paul, I hope it was only thr humungous array of shininess that was confusing.

That and my general lack of knowing what I needed and taking ages to make a decision.

You didn't mention budget. You could get away with just more nuts and new draws if need be. Otherwise most of what Johnny said is on the money.

Err I hoped I wouldn't need to. Budget is completely dependant on what I need.

I have just spent the last few weeks accumulating bargains for a certain forthcoming event. If you want to pop over I can pimp you real good.

You working tonight? Could pop in for a chat and a PIMPING good time.

[Will Hunt]

The obvious alternative to buying static for abseiling into stuff is to join the University Caving Club for the princely sum of £2 and then borrowing their kit to rag about on the choss 

[Paul B]

The obvious alternative to buying static for abseiling into stuff is to join the University Caving Club for the princely sum of £2 and then borrowing their kit to rag about on the choss 

I'd rather smoke pole.

[Hoseyb]

I do a lot of adventuring, new routing and generally getting scared. I also don't have the greatest wage and a youth with two on the way. This makes me a)thrifty and b) very concious of not missing a gear placement.

I regularly use my beal joker with a mammut galaxy for double rope work, as I can switch between trad and sport (say on the Slate. I will say a DMM Buggette has been a really important purchase for hhandling skinny ropes singley.

I have a double set of nuts, a set of superlights, a set of RP's, 3 skyhooks a blue camp ballnut, black and pink tricam's for shotholes, cam's 00 to 6 with a couple of double ups in the mid ranges (2 6's as I do a fair few Offwidths)

I have 10 short draws and 6 long ones and a dozen or so slings, skinnier the better.

Pretty much every bit of gear has proved its worth. 60m ropes are a no brainer as especially on poorer described routes and new routing you don't want to run out of rope 3m from a belay, also you can use a lot of rope up constructing reliable belays on multipitch on poorer rock. If I could reccomed only two bits of kit; a set of RP's and a buggette would be them.
Hosey

[Drew]

What nonsense. I bet there isn't a single record of one breaking in any real situation. On the occasional long route with bolt belays I do, I use a 60cm sling larks footed into my belay loop. As long as you don't take a >FF1 onto it, there's no problem. Its not something likely to happen by accident - a theoretical issue, not a real one.

Ok, so maybe not the sling breaking, but it does happen

Also page 21 here also mentions the Grand Cap incident again, as well as a Ben Nevis one.

Not many reports, but it does happen.

[Paul B]

If I could reccomed only two bits of kit; a set of RP's and a buggette would be them.
Hosey

Thanks for your input (here and on the slate thread), I've got a reverso 3 which I really rate.

[chummer]

Sorry for any repeats of whats been said but here is my advice, this IMO is the fucking knowledge:


Use 60m ropes if you're only gonna get one set, 8mm's are nice, I'm a convert nowadays.

DMM phantom draws are awesome for trad, 18 cm mainly (12ish?) and a few smaller ones too. 2 or 4 (i always stay even numbered cos i'm a nob)
 a few 22cm's too are handy.

A couple of 4ft 8mm dyneema slings made into draws with phantom crabs for super extendable(or not) quickdraws, great for Gogarth

If you can afford it, sell ya cams from No 1 upwards on UKC for more than you would pay for'em and get a set of DMM Dragons.

Set of wall nuts, and to beef ya nuts up even more a set of DMM alloy offsets or trebles up to No's 5 or 6 ( I have a bit of an on /off thing with the alloy offsets)

Use phantoms on ya slings unless you specifically want to use screw gates in which case the phantom screw gate or equivalent.

A smallish HMS for clove hitches at belays (if you use 8mm ropes you won't need a big crab)

Fuck off any sort of purpose made lanyard daisy chain thing at belays, use your rope or a sling (with care, see DMM Vid)

DMM RP copies (IMPs) are great, like the old RP's with a couple of tweeks.

The smaller brass offsets are great for slate where you can get worn placements. Don't bother with the large ones.

Keep a some of your  old fat slings for tat or at belays

Get a few 8ft and 4ft  8mm dyneema slings for en route.

Keep the peanuts and add as appropriate.

In my opinion light is right, carrying a proper trad rack is no longer that noticable so climbing becomes even more enjoyable particularly if you go to Gogarth as you say you will.

Can't get'em here but i fuckin love my set of Aliens...

The End.

 

[slackline]

Also page 21 here also mentions the Grand Cap incident again, as well as a Ben Nevis one.

The article on slings and anchors would be useful if you could actually see the graphs!

[chummer]

Hosey, with the greatest of respect nearly all of your climbing  is on the slate where fat ropes are ok or in fact better in order to resist being cut by some of the choss that you climb 

Your rack whilst being entirely usable esp on the slate it isn't the ideal if Paul wants to go to Gogarth.

Personally I think a ropes for sport and trad are a no brainer. Meaty single sport rope, takes alot of wear dogging and the like. Nice thin 60's just for your trading. I appreciate gear is expensive but it lasts for ages, but admittedly I don't have kids, I have a dog that looks like a bog brush.

[Johnny Brown]

Ok, so maybe not the sling breaking, but it does happen

My take on this (I used to have a job testing such gear/ situations, in fact I was a predecessor of the tester in your second link) is that the lesson to learn is not that the gear is unsafe, but that it has limitations. The guy on the Grand Cap made two mistakes - he fell off having stupidly climbed above the anchor, and he had only clipped into a single peg. Who knows if a dynamic cowstail would have lowered impact forces enough to prevent the peg pulling? Possibly, possibly not. Safer than a different cowstail would have been not climbing above the anchor, and not relying on one piece.

[Hoseyb]

Young mr Rat
Whilst I agree that fat ropes may resist cutting for longer, in my unfortunate experience resistance may be futile. That is if its gonna cut it'll just take a bit longer to get through a fatter rope. That Said I do have a fat one for short adventures, but reducing the weight of a dragging rope seems more important IMHO 

As for my rack, I find it perfectly OK at gogarth, admitadly I don't take the whole thing, as I don't anywhere as I'd never get off the ground. but Cherry pick for the occasion.

(I have started using a Reverso 3 as well, but  prefer the buggette if lowering people of size)

[Drew]

Also page 21 here also mentions the Grand Cap incident again, as well as a Ben Nevis one.

The article on slings and anchors would be useful if you could actually see the graphs!

You want the Moon on a stick you! 

...the lesson to learn is not that the gear is unsafe, but that it has limitations...

True dat. And I know the number of incidents are low, but accidents do happen. I'm going to stop banging this drum now, but I was only beating it because I know that I've been in situations where a slip could've been very serious.

[nic mullin]

To be honest, you're going to get as many different opinions on what you need as there are people that post on this thread, which I guess tells you something in itself.

I'll still chuck in my 2p though.

As far as ropes go, I'd be tempted to keep an eye out for a good deal on a light 70 for redpoints/long routes and only use it for routes that you need the length/low weight on, otherwise you run the risk of wearing out  5m at each end working short routes and chopping the rope down to 60m anyway. Fat singles and 50m half ropes can be had for pretty cheap as they're not fashionable nowadays. 60m half ropes have got me into as much trouble (missing ab stations etc) as they've saved me, plus you get the extra ballache of pulling an extra 30foot of rope through at every belay. Doubling up a light single with a half rope shouldn't give you any problems, but if you use the single more than the half and it starts to get fat and furry then abbing on both tied together can be a pain as they'll run through your belay plate at slightly different speeds, especially if  they're wet.

Can you get the 'biners out of the slings on your current 'draws? If you can then a cheap option would be to just buy some short dyneema slings of varing lengths and make up draws for trad using those and the krabs from your current 'draws. I carry anywhere from 8-16, of various lengths, depending on what I'm doing.

I tend to carry less wires than most people on here have suggested. I usually find that one set with with a set of rp-type things (which cover up to about size 3 in normal wires) and doubling up a few in the mid sizes covers me more than adequately, unless i'm on big pitches in the mountains or on sea cliffs. Too many wires (especially racked on too few krabs) usually means that I can't find what I want in the tangle and/or wind up dropping something. For small stuff, rp shaped things are way way better than the scaled down versions of wallnuts/rocks. The single stem rocks are good though. I don't tend to use offsets very often, as they're often only a bit better than a side on nut, but crap and flick out easily in any slot that doesn't fit the shape of the nut perfectly. There are some places where only an offset will fit though.

Cams are cams pretty much, the main features between different brands seem to be either gimmicks, or trade offs (e.g. the weight/range thing with camalots), so again I'd look for a deal as opposed to deciding that one particular model will do the business for you. I usually carry a set from 00 to 3 (bigger if I think I'll need it) and maybe double up in the mid sizes on a long pitch, or if you know you'll need them.  Small cams-wise, I'm always worried that the stem on BD C3s is too stiff and will wobble them out of shallow or directional placements, zeroes are ok but not the miracle pieces they were hyped as, Aliens are nice to use but hard to get hold of and may or may not have quality control issues. I've not used metolius master cams.

I've never found myself thinking "if only I had a tricam", but I know plenty of people who would never be without a couple. If there was a route that I was deparete to do that I knew needed one, I'd buy it. It's not happened yet though. Hexes are good for winter, and for rigging ab ropes etc. I don't tend to carry them when I'm leading apart from scottish winter, mostly beacuse the constant clanking annoys me.

I'll carry one screwgate with my belay plate and maybe one (big) spare one for belays. I'll carry another small one to use with a magic plate type setup, but I don't use that very often because it's a faff if you're swinging leads and means you have to build an anchor that comes together at a point that you can clip into.  Draws and snapgates are fine for building belays, especially if you're attaching by clove hitching your ropes and pay attention to which way the gate is facing. You can always use snapgates back to back if you need to.

I'll usually carry 5-10 slings(maybe more if I'll need them), some once-over-the-shoulder length and some twice that length. A cheap option is to tie these yourself out of 6mm cord with a double fishermans. These are handy if you think you might be leaving them behind at an ab, but they can be a bit harder to get behind narrow flakes than sewn tape slings. The great thing about dyneema slings is that they're easy to thread - they're worth buying for this alone. You can buy other types for the rest of your sling-type needs if the reports about dyneema worry you, or just be careful how you use them.

Having said all that, what you like is mostly down to what you're used to, and everybody (myself included) thinks that the gear they shelled out for is great and everybody else is wrong if they don't agree - just like cars, cameras, lenses, bikes etc. etc. But really, most of the gear out there now is pretty good, so you won't do too badly buying from any of the main manufacturers.

I'd pick things up bit by bit as you work out what you want, and shop around for deals on stuff. Many shops won't give you much of a discount if you buy in bulk anymore, so unless you have a big trip planned it works out just as economical to buy stuff as you go.

Hope that's of some use.

[Paul B]

I'd pick things up bit by bit as you work out what you want, and shop around for deals on stuff. Many shops won't give you much of a discount if you buy in bulk anymore, so unless you have a big trip planned it works out just as economical to buy stuff as you go.

Hope that's of some use.

It was thanks however I'll disagree with the bit by bit comment. My rack is and has been fine for grit and short stuff but recently venturing further afield (the pass and the slate) I've found myself running out of things on straightforward routes often leading to unecessarily uncomfortable positions. With my other half bringing little to the table in the form of gear its not as if I can borrow anything.

Anyway, I just popped over to my hand neighbourhood shop (CragX) and I've been truly P.I.M.P.E.D. (now where the f*ck is westwood?)

[Johnny Brown]

Nice. Lets have a photo of yourself draped in shiny kit then?

[Paul B]

Camera profile and Vignette just for you.

Now I just have to make it all less shiny so I don't look like such a twat.

[andy popp]

Crikey. I think that's more gear than I've owned in my entire life.

[Paul B]

Crikey. I think that's more gear than I've owned in my entire life.

Effectively its split between two of us.