[Mi|es]

Basically, I'm fairly new to actually training for climbing and since I recently injured my finger I've been doing lots of high volume, low intensity climbing while it heals.  So far I've done a few sessions where I toprope a relatively easy route (F5 whereas my max would probably be around F6c/7a) at less than vertical (i.e. the opposite of overhanging) for 30 minutes straight with no rest in between laps. 

By the end of the 30 minutes I'm very out of breath and feeling very tired but my forearms are still pretty soft (they're a little firmer than usual but barely).  From what I've read, I should be ARCing at around 30% of my max and should feel a very mild pump but I'm not sure what a mild pump is. 

Does what I've said sound about right?  Thanks in advance 

[clm]

shit. Is that what less than vertical means.

[GCW]

Are you saying that you top rope slabs and don't get pumped?

[Krank]

Come on fella's thats not very helpfull now is it. A mild pump is when your pumped but only mildly, hope that helped

[GCW]

I was trying to clarify exactly what Mi|es is doing, as he talks about ARC but then the post doesn't correlate.

Thus, I prefer to understand what is being asked prior to giving advice in order to avoid answering the wrong question.

[Mi|es]

shit. Is that what less than vertical means.

I wasn't sure if that's what less than vertical meant

Yea, basically I was toproping a slab, although there are ledge type things that stick out which you have to climb over so in all it probably equates to climbing a vertical wall.

According to what I read, if you're pumped then the capilliaries are squeezed shut and so there are no benefits (of this kind) from doing it.  From that surely it's best if you're not pumped at all as long as you're clearly out of breath?

[Richie Crouch]

Surely achieving a mild pump would be much better on a 10deg overhanging wall about 3 grades below your o/s limit?

[Mi|es]

Surely achieving a mild pump would be much better on a 10deg overhanging wall about 3 grades below your o/s limit?

Could you explain why?  I'm not disagreeing I'm just basing my comments on what I've read (I'll post the links to the books below if you're interested).

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zduhTLP2rG0C&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=arc+capillary+climbing&source=bl&ots=QZbl9mRkUg&sig=Yijux2NlcLfjEwquWpX39yiDdiM&hl=en&ei=WQvUS8yfNaCy0gSMwaHlDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=arc%20capillary%20climbing&f=false

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=SiX7pIZZ-AkC&pg=PA171&lpg=PA171&dq=arc+capillary+climbing&source=bl&ots=LzTEDx7HxC&sig=4kapcFgUUpw3rZyf09a8x-znYXw&hl=en&ei=WQvUS8yfNaCy0gSMwaHlDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CCIQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q&f=false

The ARC section on the second link starts on the page before.

[Mi|es]

Surely achieving a mild pump would be much better on a 10deg overhanging wall about 3 grades below your o/s limit?

Sorry, I think I misread your post, I've tried climbing on a 10 deg overhanging wall at 3 grades below my o/s but I found I was getting more than what I would consider 'mildly pumped' i.e. I was having to shake out a fair bit and my arms felt pretty tight.

[mrjonathanr]

Get a bit pumped but not so much that eventually you'll be too pumped to continue ie pump should never rise above a sustainable level. Toproping slabs sounds unlikely to be demanding enough no matter what your level. Really you should get an answer off Serpico if you want an exact explanation.

[Mi|es]

Get a bit pumped but not so much that eventually you'll be too pumped to continue ie pump should never rise above a sustainable level. Toproping slabs sounds unlikely to be demanding enough no matter what your level. Really you should get an answer off Serpico if you want an exact explanation.

Ok, I'll try on some vertical-overhanging walls and see how it goes, if I do start to get too pumped should I have a rest at the bottom or just stop entirely?  I see what you mean about toproping slabs, I suppose thinking about it you can take a lot more weight with your legs and so your arms won't get worked so hard.  However, the friend I was climbing with was doing the same as me and he was getting pumped and having to stop after about 15 minutes so perhaps it just depends on your own abilities?

[account_inactive]

I'll get my coat

[reeve]

As I understand it, ARCing is intended to be done at such an intensity that you flush your forearms with blood, but, as you say, without getting pumped (sensing any burn from lactic acid). As you also say, if you are on holds sufficiently small (or on a steep angle) then your muscles will squeeze the capillaries shut. The idea is to provide a stimulus to the growth of these capillaries, which will only happen if you maintain the highest blood pressure in these capillaries as you can. If this means that you have to do it on a slab so that it feels indefinitely sustainable, then so be it (as long as it's not so slabby that you can take your hands off at any point. By slab I'm assuming that you are still having to pull at least a little bit with your hands to stay on.) 20-30 minutes seems to be the most oft-quoted duration that you need to ARC for for it to be effective, although obviously if you've got it right, you won't have done anything hard enough to actually make you tired, so will step off the wall just slightly fatigued, and pretty bored.
Conversely, I've recently taken to doing slightly shorter stints on the wall at slightly higher intensity. I've been trying to stay within the range where although I'm a bit pumped, my arms are dealing with the lactic acid at about the same rate as they're producing it. I have no research which says this is better, but it's ever so slightly less boring. And Abarro81 does it.

PS. I wouldn't take any advice on training endurance from Richie Crouch, the strongest man in the world who is aiming as low as F7b+   

[abarro81]

Conversely, I've recently taken to doing slightly shorter stints on the wall at slightly higher intensity. I've been trying to stay within the range where although I'm a bit pumped, my arms are dealing with the lactic acid at about the same rate as they're producing it. I have no research which says this is better, but it's ever so slightly less boring. And Abarro81 does it.

I also have no research, but it is indeed less boring, though I still think it's worth doing 20-40 minutes, it's just that when you're a little bit pumped the world is a brighter place to be (I really do love getting pumped). And Randall and Stu L said it was good. That 'a bit pumped but always in control' feeling seems to be a good place to start and ajust from there.  I rate it - I've never turned up in Europe and felt pretty fit from day 1 before like I did on my recent trip after busting out lots of this harder style of ARCing in the preceeding months.

Long live stamina. (But anyone who ARCs on a rope must a) be a full time climber, b) have the most understanding belayer in the world who'll belay you for 30mins but not want the same in return or c) be on crack).