[Johnny Brown]

He just boulders now and is dead to me.

  I find the prospect of falling off a bigger hindrance to performance on sport climbs than on trad, highballs, etc.

Only just seen the careers post, very good! This was due to being in a bothy in Scotland, relaxing in Arcadia whilst choppers full of poor bastards heading for another two weeks in jail went overhead.

I might just throw a spanner in the works by noting I turned down the option of becoming a gear rep for the option of being a level 1. It was the right decision for then, not just for the future, so god knows why you rate it so highly?

For own life some degree of autonomy is worth a great deal. My main ambition is to not succumb to society's idea that working 9-5+ Mon-Fri plus 20 days holiday is somehow reasonable.

[Stu Littlefair]

"Falling practice" works, but like all applications of cognitive behavioural therapy it needs to be done right. This means a gradual and consistent exposure to 'falling activities' just outside your comfort zone. For some people this can mean starting off by letting go on a fairly tight top-rope without saying 'slack'. For really nervous people it can mean top-roping gradually higher.

The first mistake most people makle is to over-extend and do things which properly intimidate them. This is counter-productive and just re-inforces the notion that falling is scary.

The second mistake is to expect quick results. It's something that takes time and is thus something that is best incorporated into all of your climbing, rather than done occasionally when you remember. I try to do a little bit all the time, and if I'm redpointing something scary, I will take practise falls on it *every* session.

One of the reasons I'm so evangelical about this is that it really works. Neither Jules and I are naturally bold climbers, but we do alright because we work on it. Jules in particular is unrecognisable from the climber she was - she's gone from being one of the most timid climbers I ever saw to being relatively un-bothered by fairly big falls...

Jonboy - FWIW I think you're right. If Dobbin has any doubts, there are almost certainly better things to be doing with his time!

[Bonjoy]

On the falling subject, choice of belayer is key I think. There's nothing worse than a nervous belayer (often made so by the leader looking scared and shouting 'Watch me' a lot) taking in the slack hard when you fall and making you slam into the rock....except maybe an inattentive belayer gabbing on endlessly while you climb then dropping you miles. For me fear of falling usually comes in the shape of fear of the belayer not doing their job properly.

[Nibile]

Fear of falling off is also tied to how close to your limit you are climbing.
Of good option, to me, would be to specifically train for Mecca, adjust the clips maybe with longer draws or the likes, and basically dominate the thing. If The moves feel easy it's harder to get scared.

[Johnny Brown]

good option, to me, would be to specifically train

I would never have guessed that Nibs.

[dobbin]

And thats the other thing - which El Mocho pulled me up on, on Monday ON THE BOARD - i always go back on the board. why? when i fail on mecca, its not because i cant flick between crimps, but because i get pumped/powered out and run out of beans, and dont want to go higher up whilst feeling pumped and being unsure of whether i will be able to make the clips.

I go on the board because I am good at it (ok, well - i am good at the three problems i do), and its not cos I want to show off, as often there's noone else there, but I like the movement, the feeling of trying hard and of being good at something. Perhaps i need to cherry pick routes that involve flicking and crimps? Oh, hang on - those are the ones I've done!

Adam and Lee - I'll not show you the video because you will show other people and then I wont know who the doubters are. My boots are on the peg - I hope you are happy now

[tim palmer]

I usually find if i force myself to concentrate and keep moving I get less nervous whilst leading, also moving briskly also helps avoid the lack of fitness issue that i also share (not that i have had fantastic results from these tactics mind you in terms of ticks, but i get less freaked out)

[Stubbs]

And thats the other thing - which El Mocho pulled me up on, on Monday ON THE BOARD - i always go back on the board. why? when i fail on mecca, its not because i cant flick between crimps, but because i get pumped/powered out and run out of beans, and dont want to go higher up whilst feeling pumped and being unsure of whether i will be able to make the clips.

So you know what you are doing wrong and what you need to do about it, but you are refusing to change this and expect a change in result?

Perhaps you could spend an hour on the Depot circuit board at lunch and then show off to yourself on the beastmaker in the evenings? 

[tim palmer]

Perhaps you could spend an hour on the Depot circuit board at lunch and then show off to yourself on the beastmaker in the evenings? 

Testify!

[dobbin]

So you know what you are doing wrong and what you need to do about it, but you are refusing to change this and expect a change in result?

  thats about the size of it - yes!

A fool is someone who does the same thing twice and expects different results.

Testify!

UH HUH! lordy lordy - i means business!

[Doylo]

There is a spectrum but hardly anyone is undistracted by the prospect of falling. Even Steve Mac, who is one of the least distracted I've climbed with, said in an article that he worked hard to be absolutely 100% undistracted.

This is right. How many of us put the same effort in every go on a route redpoint as we do on a boulder problem.  Most people are held back to some degree (however small) by the falling thing i reckon. Lead climbing is scary, it's pretty unnatural questing up knowing you've every chance of slamming into the rock and fall miles. I think Dobbins problem is that he's always dipped his toe in with the sport climbing and never really immersed himself in it (correct me if i'm wrong Dob).  I think it takes most people years and lots of falls to really become comfortable with falling.

[SA Chris]

A fool is someone who does the same thing twice and expects different results.

I was halfway through saying the same thing. I recommend a tasty cup of MTFU every day too

[Ru]

You weren't there when I did shine on Dobbin. But I did massively over pull.

It's a familiarity thing as everyone else said. The snowballing was my first grit routes or highballs for ages. I was uncomfortable and pulled too hard. I was starting to get into the swing of things after a few days out and relaxed again.

Same on the lime. You have to go out and do it enough so that you forget about the falling bit. Difficult with a job and kids I know. See if you can regularly go and do some routes - at the wall in the week and at the crag at weekends. Try and do some onsighting and red point some easier routes fast. This gets you used to being a bit sketchy above bolts. Sack off bouldering altogether for a bit.

[dobbin]

Whoa there! I know you are right if thats what I want to do - but routes dont burn a hole in my side, they're just something fun to do when its too hot for the minging crimp, and i like bouldering too much to totally not do it.

Plus, can you imagine how weak i would become? it would be like barrows mk2

[tim palmer]

I would sack off Mecca it is turd and nasty to fall off

[Doylo]

Whoa there! I know you are right if thats what I want to do - but routes dont burn a hole in my side, they're just something fun to do when its too hot for the minging crimp, and i like bouldering too much to totally not do it.

Plus, can you imagine how weak i would become? it would be like barrows mk2

you don't want that...

[Bonjoy]

What happened to doing Grooved Arete? Better route than Mecca ( )and a quick tick (in theory). Then you've got all the other brilliant 7c-8a+ routes in Yorks (even the Peak has some great routes) you've spent years not getting round to doing?

[dobbin]

yeah exactly! i am loving GA - its just so consistent - and thats the thing with kilnsey, the routes are longer so they tend not to involve a minging pain tolerance crimp, which is a nice change.

And I suppose back to Doylos point above - if i do just want to dip my toe in, and i like getting to the top of things, then i should keep on the realistic tip!

Went on GA yesterday ackshully. It was a total midge death zone, but I had fun. Got a belay on 50 for 5 off Jee as well. That is so cool! Whats it called if you continue?

[Doylo]

Went on GA yesterday ackshully. It was a total midge death zone, but I had fun. Got a belay on 50 for 5 off Jee as well. That is so cool! Whats it called if you continue?

All Out 8b+

[dobbin]

it must be brick hard then, as its not that long!

[tim palmer]

. Got a belay on 50 for 5 off Jee as well. That is so cool! Whats it called if you continue?

All out, utterly nails i thought. 
Full tilt is a much better bet if you are looking for a quick tick

[Doylo]

Doesn't get done much does it. Think it's supposed to be a font 7b+/c up top. Isn't it the route that got a saucepan padlocked to the first bolt when it was a proj?

[abarro81]

Don't worry Dobbin, you'll never turn into me, you're not handsome enough.

[Boredboy]

"Falling practice" works, but like all applications of cognitive behavioural therapy it needs to be done right. This means a gradual and consistent exposure to 'falling activities' just outside your comfort zone. For some people this can mean starting off by letting go on a fairly tight top-rope without saying 'slack'. For really nervous people it can mean top-roping gradually higher.

Hey Stu,

I reckon exposure to falls / climbing above bolts is a really good idea. From a CBT perspective you could also ask the question: "what is it that's making me scared of falling" this may sound like it will be an obvious answer I.e I may get hurt. But I reckon there's loads of individual variations on that. A classic 'exposure / behavioural experiment' would first ask the question 'what am I afraid of?' then attempt to rationalize this. You would then expose yourself to the feared situation E.g leading above Bolts onsight, whist stopping any unwanted behavior (like down climbing and saying take). The idea is you'd gain both a new understanding of your fears whilst reducing habitual unwanted behaviours with an overall decrease in anxiety.

It usually works best if it's specific to the individual and the situation. For example I mostly fall off sport routes due to fear of failing rather than taking a lob on to a bolt which I'm usually sure is 99.9% safe.

Also I think clip sticking up routes can be really bad for the head.

Cheers

Dan

[T_B]

Isn't it the route that got a saucepan padlocked to the first bolt when it was a proj?

I seem to remember seeing Chris Plant padlock a saucepan to it? Might be completely wrong!