[PeterH]

I read this and (for what it's worth) disagree with many of the UK responses saying we (I still have my UK passport ) don't have sports routes, crap weather etc.

We have lived here in Sardinia for 3 years now and now know quite a few good continental climbers (lots doing 8a in 1-2 goes, a few 8c-9a) who pass by each year, summer and winter since there are crags for all seasons, to get info on new routes, or to bolt routes with us, or to ask what routes they can free, or even stay with us at our guesthouse.

I think there's a lot of whinging going on by the Brits. Ask someone from Milan (two 8c+ climbers I know) where are the nearest really steep crags for them to train on - there aren't any! In the winter they go bouldering to Cresciano, or one bloke trains on a fingerboard, another 1-5-9... Or check out the weather in Prague in the winter...

These guys, most of whom have families/jobs/kids, train / climb hard with the facilities they have at home - a lot indoor, probably with lots of other good climbers for company/stimulation - then come here regularly (twice a year for 2-4 weeks at a time) and do hard routes. For instance, this Xmas there are loads of climbers dropping by to get info on new routes. They come here for the climbing and good weather. Quite a few people come here and buy holiday flats, rather than at the more developed Cala Gonone, since the climbing's better all year round (CG not so good summer).

I WOULD say, though, that building up a good knowledge of your "destination area" and routes to do there helps a great deal. A big problem (the major problem, in my view) with sports climbing is that the history/line/beauty of a route which can really motivate you gets lost if you just think of the grade and print off a list from 8a.nu of the routes at your target grade with the most ascents (= most doable, fewest surprises, etc). Maybe one reason why bouldering is popular is that this "everything other than the grade" info is very available - you just look at the boulder or youTube! You need to know your good-weather destination as well as Raven Tor 

If you want to do your first 8a or whatever, it helps your motivation to have seen it, know that it's a good route, know that it's a respected route, know who else has done it, talk to them,...and going back to an area time and time again allows you to develop a good knowledge of the area. It's NOT necessary to live there, and many people wouldn't or couldn't earn a living teaching English...

What do people think?
Peter

[Paul B]

link?

[PeterH]

The new/repeat route info is on http://www.sardiniaclimb.com/NuovoScEng/ListaNewsEn.html, our stuff is mainly in the Baunei area: me (Peter Herold), our Czech friend Jan Honza Kares, Maurizio Oviglia, Simone Sarti...

...more detailed info, photos on the blog / photo album of our web site www.peteranne.it

We give the route info to people who aren't staying with us, often they leave a contribution to the bolt fund, as well as those staying with us.  ciao Peter

[account_inactive]

I think you are missing the point when you speak of Italians having to travel many hours.  We have to leave the country to get on long stamina plods.  I don't see that many euro wads turning up and rinsing Ravens Tor......in fact I don't see Stevie doing that either.

Our grades are hard compared to the euro spots FACT.  Most Brit climbers will climb harder abroad FACT.  I'm quite happy about that.  It makes us all look like wads when we are on holiday

[north_country_boy]

We have to leave the country to get on long stamina plods.

It makes us all look like wads when we are on holiday

However in reality we look like complete punters, as although we may find the moves easy, we have generally shit, stamina/endurance!

I've certainly never ever felt like 'a wad' when in Europe........pretty sure most people from the UK......minus McClure & Simpson would say the same (and even then Steve would be overly modest!  )

Why are we always seeking an explanation or excuse? Train hard, put the time in, do the routes then claim the moral high ground, after all how many Brits have climbed 8c/8c+ in the UK and abroad top even comment on!?

[Paul B]

You may think Brits whinge but when I see posts asking if one face of one boulder at Almscliff might be dry out of the whole of the country I don't think its completely unjustified?

With regards to Euro routes, the fact is they just aren't the same ball game. We may be governed by the same basic grading system but a comparison between the two styles is nigh on impossible. Its like comparing a time in a sprint vs. a marathon. Has anyone out there ever tried to normalise world record times in the two? Thats exactly what the grading system tries to achieve.

Having just spent the last 6 months travelling around europe, doing mainly sport, I can assure you all that grades change ridiculously between countries as well as areas. Some are in line with the British stuff but not many.
A friend once said to me "how many routes have a Fnt7c+ crux at F8a+?" which I replied "pump up the power". I'm fairly certain if you put any of the Spanish operating at that grade on PUTP they'd be shot down in big fat flames and think you were insane for suggesting it at 8a+. Surprise surprise if you reverse it and put a tor wad on something requiring an 80m rope they'd fade and die by about the 4th bolt.
Given the time though things can change, there are some really great British sport climbers. Look at Bolger for a good example. Mclure. Watson.
Stevie can jump on his high horse and call us all a load of whingers but the fact of the matter is that he did what he did abroad. Incredible achievement though that is, it isn't Northern Lights.

(I think I better go and do some pull ups)

[PeterH]

"I think you are missing the point when you speak of Italians having to travel many hours.  We have to leave the country to get on long stamina plods."

So do the people I'm referring to, that's my point, that people living in many Continental cities and climbing hard face exactly the same difficulties as Brits (OK, the weather might not be quite so crap, but the foothills of the Alps are not exactly the south of Spain or Sardinia). With low cost flights Brits can get to the south of Spain/France/Italy in roughly the same time and maybe cheaper than people from Milan, Vienna,...

There seems to be the assumption that sports climbing = "stamina plods". I can only speak really about Sardinia where we live...and can tell you that the 8a "vertical" or "overhanging slabs" round here see a lot fewer ascents, and if you do them you get much more respect, that the steep big-holes routes at Isili which never get wet so you see all the chalk...

...so these shorter more PE routes would seem to be the obvious targets for you guys as well as for my Milan friends...

...or maybe it's the fact that me and my mates are all around 40-45 years old and learned to climb walls not overhangs ?

Peter
PS my best RP a modest 7b: I go best on routes with short intense fingery sections, "that'd be E4 6b at Pen Trywn" and suffer more on steeper routes with big holds at the same grade...

[Doylo]

The grade thing is important, if i want to try an 8c on my local cliffs i have a choice of three, all of which are ridiculously hard for 8c. I know i could do one with half the effort at Margalef etc... LPT has fickle conditions and its tidal, Malham and Raven Tor are often either too hot or too wet and Kilnsey too cold or to wet. Its a battle trying to climb hard in this country.  This is why when a brit does a 9a chances are it will be abroad (simpson, macleod, add bolger soon to the list).
 Re Stevie's 9a- Gaz went there this year and got beasted on a 8a, he said the place was BEASTLY! Respect.

[Paul B]

So do the people I'm referring to, that's my point, that people living in many Continental cities and climbing hard face exactly the same difficulties as Brits (OK, the weather might not be quite so crap, but the foothills of the Alps are not exactly the south of Spain or Sardinia). With low cost flights Brits can get to the south of Spain/France/Italy in roughly the same time and maybe cheaper than people from Milan, Vienna,...

Surely you're not comparing a 6-7 hour drive to driving to the airport, parking, flying, driving, accommodation etc. Its simply not the same and low cost is not low cost (fuel, parking, flight, tax, rental, accom) compared to a tank of fuel and sleeping in your van? Thats just nonce sense.

There seems to be the assumption that sports climbing = "stamina plods". I can only speak really about Sardinia where we live...and can tell you that the 8a "vertical" or "overhanging slabs" round here see a lot fewer ascents, and if you do them you get much more respect, that the steep big-holes routes at Isili which never get wet so you see all the chalk...

The majority of hard routes aren't in that style though are they? Rhetorical.

[Steve R]

Re Stevie's 9a- Gaz went there this year and got beasted on a 8a, he said the place was BEASTLY! Respect.

I'd second this.  I was deep in Haston Country over the summer and the majority of crags actually seemed pretty hard to me.  Bedheilac area seemed harder than yorkshire grades. (and not disimilar in style some of 'em.)

Regarding Grotte de Sabart specifically, I couldn't even dog the moves on an 8a I tried in there, possibly/probably the same one that Gaz got beasted upon.  What does that say about the difficulty of a 9a in there relative to the UK or anywhere else?  Not alot really I don't suppose but anyway...

[PeterH]

Surely you're not comparing a 6-7 hour drive to driving to the airport, parking, flying, driving, accommodation etc. Its simply not the same and low cost is not low cost (fuel, parking, flight, tax, rental, accom) compared to a tank of fuel and sleeping in your van? Thats just nonce sense

Ferry from mainland Italy to Sardinia return €300 with cabin (is overnight) but you do have your car here, makes Ryanair+Easyjet's 6 weekly 2,5 hour flights + car hire not seem too bad a deal. Once you get here accommodation is cheap. I guess Spain and France similar.

The majority of hard routes aren't in that style though are they? Rhetorical.

Some of the steep routes here will be downgraded in the new guide, I'm told. It seems that the grades assigned when steep routes were a new thing were too high, the new guide will change this, and it is funny to see people who RP steep 8a struggle on a 7a slab (Even I burnt one of them off  ). It'd seem logical that people who do a lot of bouldering but don't have access to 40m steep routes with big holds target the shorter, more intense or more technical routes, or is that too obvious? Many of the 8a wall climbs round here have only had 1-2 ascents...

[Paul B]

Ferry from mainland Italy to Sardinia return €300 with cabin (is overnight) but you do have your car here, makes Ryanair+Easyjet's 6 weekly 2,5 hour flights + car hire not seem too bad a deal. Once you get here accommodation is cheap. I guess Spain and France similar.

Not a bad deal and cheap are completely different things and again I don't think your Milan buddies will be forking that out every weekend they fancy a nip to Cresc.

Many of the 8a wall climbs round here have only had 1-2 ascents...

We're not talking 8a, we're talking 8c minimum.

[saltbeef]

this is rather a tedious thread.
You're out of your mind. Milan is near a lot of climbing.
i live 15mins from manchester airport. a fly drive is not the same as driving your van a couple of hours in an evening as all the bureaucracy involved in a fly drive. Its still not as cheap sleeping in a van or at your mates.
I'm not going to burn the planet flying to spain every weekend either. Who'd go with you too? Flights aren't that cheap, I don't have £200 spare to go climbing every weekend.
i admit i whinge, i've had 3 days outside since going to font in october (and I could have had a few more but the weather has been shit and I've got a job.)
British standards are shit? We (the collective UKB masses) go bouldering, we're not that bad at it. I agree most of the punters who do routes stoically all year have an average grade of hvs, but why try harder there are loads of routes on stanage at that grade.
As has been stated before the type of routes here aren't like the continent, they're cruxy as hell. they have really small holds and demand a requisite power level for success. That Pierre Bollinger chap, Bock,and that Japanese wad have quite a few big numbers between them (multiple 9a's) but fail to redpoint lowly 8cs at the tor (evolution). How does that work?
Vertical 8as?! look at malham, its barely overhanging and people climb 8as there each weekend.
Look at the crags in Europe, look at the English ones. I can think of about 8 8as at the tor. There are hundreds at Siurana or Ceuse and look at the crags nearby.
Seeing as you live in the south of Europe near good climbing, where your less likely to get injured on minging crimps, why don't you climb hard?  My excuse? I've been sport climbing once this year, then pump up the power got wet, I'd rather go bouldering.

[cofe]

It depresses me that it appears the world must revolve around sport climbing.

[Doylo]

It depresses me that it appears the world must revolve around sport climbing.

well it does in Chuffing conka 

[dave]

It depresses me that it appears the world must revolve around sport climbing.

its like everyone's forgotten about all those 4m E8s that we're still waiting for stevie to come to the peak and crush.

[abarro81]

I don't quite get what your point is in your original post - it's all a bit rambling (like the following). Sticking to sport climbing for the moment...

Yes, there are some good climbers who live in Europe and live far away from the rock or in rainy places. Yes, some of them climb hard (like Paul said, sticking to the original thread it's really 8c and up so talking about 8as is a bit pointless). However there are some Brits who climb hard so anacdoal evidence of a couple of italians living away from rock, training hard and crushing doesn't really tell us much . How good are the Italians in general compared to us at sport atthe top levels (I have no idea)?

Are you saying there are as many strong Europeans living in places which are crap for climbing as there are in places which have the advantages mentioned in the old thread (weather, high quality crags to inspire, good sport/comp scenes, routes with extensions, routes which are less conditions dependent, steep long routes etc)? Can you back that up, because it would surprise me. Where do most of the best Italian climbers live - close to the good sport climbing (with some of the above advantages) or far away from it? I know nothing about Italy or it's climbers but I'd know what my guess would be

I'm not sure we're going to get anything new out of this thread - people will come up with the same reasons why so many Brits just boulder, why we're not as motivated as the Basque Beasts and thus why we've not got as many sport climbers in the >8c region as France or Spain.

[Andy F]

The grade thing is important, if i want to try an 8c on my local cliffs i have a choice of three, all of which are ridiculously hard for 8c. I know i could do one with half the effort at Margalef etc... LPT has fickle conditions and its tidal, Malham and Raven Tor are often either too hot or too wet and Kilnsey too cold or to wet. Its a battle trying to climb hard in this country. 

And we've got mud on our boots when we start  (name the quote). But seriously, getting good conditions in this country is as hard as climbing the routes. As a Malham/Kilnsey regular I know of 2 8c and above ascents in Yorkshire this year. And conditions weren't bad...

[PeterH]

Are you saying there are as many strong Europeans living in places which are crap for climbing as there are in places which have the advantages mentioned in the old thread (weather, high quality crags to inspire, good sport/comp scenes, routes with extensions, routes which are less conditions dependent, steep long routes etc)? Can you back that up, because it would surprise me. Where do most of the best Italian climbers live - close to the good sport climbing (with some of the above advantages) or far away from it? I know nothing about Italy or it's climbers but I'd know what my guess would be

My point and data is simply that:-
1. people in the UK often talk about sports climbing as if it were only "stamina plods" and this manifestly isn't true. As my mate from Milan said when we talked yesterday about this, "look at Action Directe!" Good point...he continued, "The 8c+ I freed this year is 4 bolts!"
2. such shorter, more bouldery routes (you would think) should be more up the street of good boulderers/those who have to train a lot indoors and (judging by the comments, when I lived in Sheffield Ron Fawcett was just freeing the Prow...) those who go well at Raven Tor rather than those with easy access to steep long routes etc. Just like the blokes from Milan.
3. If the 1990's wall climbing 8a's round where I live (think of Jerzu) are so easy , how come they have had so few repeats? And the repeats that there've been are usually by 40-somethings? Many younger Sardinian climbers do overhanging 8a's and harder at Isili but don't go near the wall climbs (= find them hard)... we don't bolt steeper (overhanging) sectors near Jerzu because it seems no-one wants to climb anything but very steep routes with many successive but individually easier moves...

So, in a nutshell, I would have thought that the UK-based climbers might enjoy themselves more (that's what we're here for, no?)  going for the shorter more fingery and less steep sports climbs. Just a suggestion, eh? I don't have quantitative data, since many climbers don't use 8a.nu or local equivalents, it's more anecdotal. AND it would apply not just at the highest grade levels.

Happy new year BTW, Peter

[Houdini]

Yawnsville, Boredom County, United States of Meh

[Ru]

You seem to be asking one question and answering another. I'm not sure how the existence of your 8c+ climbing mate from Milan and the assertion that the 8a wall climbs in Sardinia are harder than the steep ones say anything about the reasons why British climbing standards seem lower than elsewhere. 

[Jaspersharpe]

Once again I think this will help explain the matter more clearly:

[saltbeef]

You seem to be asking one question and answering another. I'm not sure how the existence of your 8c+ climbing mate from Milan and the assertion that the 8a wall climbs in Sardinia are harder than the steep ones say anything about the reasons why British climbing standards seem lower than elsewhere.

[Doylo]

thats enough silly threads for now

[mrjonathanr]

Once again I think this will help explain the matter more clearly:

I've licked a lemon or two: maybe just not enough?

[PeterH]

Well I asked what people thought and you all say, "You're talking bollocks." I'm not offended, just rather surprised. I would have thought that people might at least have been open to what was supposed to be a helpful suggestion (=where you can go on holiday to best use the skills you develop best at home). Maybe the title of the post, re-using the rather provocative title, didn't help. If this caused confusion/offence, I apologise. Personally I don't have an opinion on British standards as compared to those in other places, and speaking as someone living on the Continent, I can tell you that many people here are very respectful of British climbing.

Peter
PS we have a lemon tree in the garden, it's warm here

[saltbeef]

too much time in the sun?
you're thread is entitled are british climbers shit?
then you harp on about vertical 8as, how you know someone who climbs 8c+ and then another swerve ball about where is good for british climbers to climb hard on holiday?

 

[abarro81]

Personally I don't have an opinion on British standards as compared to those in other places

Huh? So why did you start a new thread about British standards?

I'm sure those who are better at vert-ish, short, hard routes already realise they're likely to get on better at Buoux, Frankenjua or short stuff elsewhere than on 50m pump outs in Tarn. Despite our best efforts at getting strong on pinches wall, some of us are still just weak and thus love stamina routes.

[Fiend]

What do people think?

It's fucking snowing again and hardly anyone wants to climb rock at the moment. That's what I think.

[Jim]

It's fucking snowing again and hardly anyone wants to climb rock at the moment

I'm psyched out of my mind to climb some rocks at the moment, even raven tor. I just can't (in bed, work in the morning etc...)

I find it strange that people get upset cos we aren't the best country at sport climbing, I don't really understand the competative nature of the sport, i climb for fun, no wait I boulder for power!

for once I fully agree with papa houdini

[account_inactive]

I sent that message from Font, in the rain, pissed off and about to bail..............

Peter you are off your spunky backpack, but yes the vert routes are harder than the steep routes in Sardinia.

If Ru ever goes to Sardinia, climbs the 8a in the middle of Urania and then writes a guide you're all fucked.  It would get 7b at the Tor tops

[MorganW]

What do people think?
Peter

i think you're subtely trying to drum up business for your B&B 

anyway in a global sense British standards do lag a bit.  Check out recent newsworthy ascents eg here:

http://bjornpohl.blogspot.com/

plenty of activity by euros and yanks.  mostly these are people just going travelling and climbing hard....why aren't the brits doing this?  Ryan P seemed like the most recent hard climb by a Brit....have there been others either here or overseas (ok Alan C in Rodellar and Tom b at Santa Linya).  I certainly respect these guy's achievements, however you would think it would be happening more often.

[Falling Down]

Subtle... I think not.

SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM

[PeterH]

"i think you're subtely trying to drum up business for your B&B"

Not really, if you look at my UKB posts they talk about the area and often ask for help with development. Neil (Slackline) thought the same at first, somewhere you can find a thread, but he realised that it was only enthusiasm for where we live, now that I would admit to. We give info on new routes here to anyone who's around, irrespective of where they are staying, and also bolts to people who bolt (properly) routes (see www.sardiniaclimb.com Lots of new routes have been bolted and freed here in the last few days with the mild weather, we gave 80 bolts to the Czechs).

Now back to translating the new guide for Sardinia...I am just doing Domusnovas, where Adam Ondra freed his 9a+/b. "MARINA SUPERSTAR*** - 9a+/9b  - 30 mt – Matteo Marini (2007) – RP Adam Ondra 10/2009"

Nothing so far as hard as that round here, though there is one route > 8b+/8c (Tactoo, see http://27crags.com/crags/su-telargiu-oro-cave/topos which we hope some wad frees this spring...the bottom 8a+ was freed in the summer. I am happy to belay as I have plenty to work on there! You can sleep in the cave if you want

ciao Peter

[adam_NE5]

Ultimately I think that what goes around comes around and whilst some countries may be top dog for hard climbs being sent at the moment doesn't mean that the British won't top the scale again at some point in the future, we are merely observing that great British tradition, forming an orderly queue and waiting our turn 
Also I am a boulderer through and through and don't really care about what routes get done where, I have the utmost respect for people who climb routes, it's something I'm not suited for but I generally speaking couldnt give a toss what hard routes get sent, like everyone else I read the news and say well done that man, invariably directing it at Sharma and the like but I get infintely more pysche out of hearing about new boulder problems out there, hell, we have lots of those in the county in the peak, in wales etc.
And our weather is a tad more moist than alot of places as people may have noticed, when will I ever get outdoors again?

[MorganW]

"i think you're subtely trying to drum up business for your B&B"

Not really,

just being toungue in cheek....i understand you're doing quite a bit for development on the island.  out of interest are you making the point that none of Sardinia's hard climbing visitors are Brits?  I think it's an interesting point....if you want to climb hard sport you need to look further afield than the UK and most brits like to travel a bit but it doesn't seem to translate into a lot of overseas achievements.

Case in point is Sasha Digiulian....just onsighted 8a+ in Margalef at 17yrs old....would be considered UKC newsworthy if she were a british bloke!

[Paul B]

no it wouldn't. Unless I missed a news item on Stu from about 3 months ago?

Margalef is bad place to quote for anything newsworthy IMO but if you want to be horrified there were many many young boys and girls walking up 8c while I was there. Some had Tribout in their surname but even so...

[yorkshiregripper]

Ive been living in Spain for over a year now and those big stamina plods have not become any easier in that time, probably because ive stuck to slightly shorter routes, which unfortunately havent become any easier either.  Spending quite a bit of time at the crags I see a lot of people from countries such at Norway, Poland, Japan, Belgium etc who like UK based climbers dont have a lot of climbing or reliable conditions.  However, these guys and girls come out and do hard routes on short trips. 

Being from the UK I understand that getting conditions isnt an easy thing to do but I dont think that is the only reason why people are not doing British routes or that the routes are super hard compared to Europe.  I think that the British style is very specific and not everyone enjoys it or has the motivation for this style ie vertical with tiny crimps, I personally enjoy jugs with huge moves, sounds easier you would think?   I dont have motivation for vertical crimpy routes.

There are loads of styles here and many lengths of routes but I wasnt aware of any Brits coming out and doing hard routes (with the exception of Lucy who is a beast no matter what country) and if it is that easy to do them why arent people coming and doing 8cs and 8c+s.  As for the routes being easy, obviously I dont know anything about hard grades but many Brits come to Margalef, Rodellar, Terradets etc and try the routes that the locals know will be downgraded or are not the grade ie Primera Linea, Darwin Dixit etc.  If you want to try some meaty graded routes there are loads at Disblia and St Linya, some really short British style ones at Disblia that offer something a bit different than the stereotypical Spanish stamina plod.

[Sloper]

Having climbed with Peter once and had him seriously help me out in sardinia once, my judgement is that this is far from spam, just the sort of random conversation that face to face at the crag would regarded as good value, it's just on here that it seems very odd.

(and I have no interest to declare)

[slackline]

Having climbed with Peter once and had him seriously help me out in sardinia once, my judgement is that this is far from spam, just the sort of random conversation that face to face at the crag would regarded as good value, it's just on here that it seems very odd.

(and I have no interest to declare)

  he's very enthusiastic about his climbing.

(no interest to declare either)

[adam p]

Once again I think this will help explain the matter more clearly:

have read all this and think Jas's piccy captures it well...ie, if you've got lemons then you should make lemonade

which is what Brits have done for years in climbing terms, they've got short, powerful stuff so are good at it. stick 'em on long stamina routes then they'll get pumped and fall off.

bring non-bouldering sports wads to uk and they'll struggle too....

exceptions like steve mc (and mr menestrel soloing revelations) prove the rule...

course this could comparing apples with oranges....

[Falling Down]

Having climbed with Peter once and had him seriously help me out in sardinia once, my judgement is that this is far from spam, just the sort of random conversation that face to face at the crag would regarded as good value, it's just on here that it seems very odd.

(and I have no interest to declare)

Fair do's.

Peter I take it back.

[MorganW]

no it wouldn't.

really:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=47304

"Jonathan Stocking is the 16 year old British Youth Champion. He has recently flashed Primera Linea (F8a) at Terradets, Spain"

but you are right always good to see how the grades settle in places like this.

[Paul B]

  fair enough...

[mrjonathanr]

I've no real knowledge of this and these days climb when I can which doesn't amount to all that much, and never climbed that hard anyway. However in the past I did climb a fair bit abroad, substantially with the French being semi-resident in Buoux for a while so I do have a take on this.
Viz: British climbers have a substantially different (crimpy) style as the norm, and importantly do not have that many sports routes to just throw themselves at...which creates a kind of flow, a 'used-to-ness' for routes that I don't think is so easily achievable in Britain because repeated routing tends towards repeatedly trying the same (difficult) routes, rather than getting that variety which is so accessible to many continental climbers.
I've been on a few trips where we just went to the crag, started on the left, whenever we fell off, sacked the route (unless 5*), stepped right and carried on onsighting (apart from me, who was glad to get up just one, any old how). I think that variety gets you really tuned in to routes. The only guy I've ever seen onsight 8a as talented as he surely was was not one of my harder-climbing French mates. But tuned-in to f~~K.

Coda: some of the guys I used to climb with almost NEVER bouldered...but when you're falling off 8b+ (again, not me you understand) day after day after day after..... power comes , all nicely wrapped up with PE and stamina too. Routing is good for routing, no question.

[Doylo]

Coda: some of the guys I used to climb with almost NEVER bouldered...but when you're falling off 8b+ (again, not me you understand) day after day after day after..... power comes , all nicely wrapped up with PE and stamina too. Routing is good for routing, no question.

Kind of agree. Obviously depends on how long the 8b+ is, most the Euro 8b+s wouldn't do much for the equivalent boulder power, say 8a/+, the ones in the frankenjura would though.

[PeterH]

I just bolted a short 7m very steep route, still to be freed (I have a brachioradialis strain  and made it worst bolting, it hurts when I hammer the bolts in), sort of like Rubicon but  shorter, less steep and with smaller holds. Called it PEAK POWER for you guys, looking at it at least 7b so you wads would piss up it. I thought of calling it Stamina Plod but too hard to explain to the Italians and they don't really have an ironic/sarcastic SOH. Here's a piccie taken Friday 7th, Peak Power is shown in red, the crux is moving up then pulling round the bulge:

The route I'm on here is Steep for Robert, we bolted this for someone who likes Stamina Plods, British SOH. 7a.
Will soon bolt two routes in the middle and also the wall behind.
Happy New Year

[Paul B]

In my opinion you've just highlighted why brits aren't coming your way. I'd rather go and get spanked on almost anything in Spain or the South of France rather than climbing on that. Sorry.

[account_inactive]

That does indeed look log

[slackline]

Sardinia is a beautiful place to climb...

La Poltrona above the town of Cala Gonone



Cala Luna (lots of routes in the caves)


Monte Odeu


And in situ giant dogs at at least one crag


Obviously most of these crags reflect the grade/standard I climb at, which is shit, rather than the hardest there is to be had, but there are other more aesthetic hard lines, the comprehensive guide book is packed with them.

[Jim]

I hate it when people leave their dead pets at the crag

[saltbeef]

I hate it when people leave their dead pets at the crag

no you don't. it gives you something to eat/fuck in between rest problems

[slackline]

I hate it when people leave their dead pets at the crag

Sorry Jim, this one was very much alive (just asleep at the time the picture was taken).

Just realised I have a picture of a large cave we passed on the way to Cala Luna.  Couldn't see any tat/bolts from where we were, and certainly no chalk.  The whole gorge we walked along looked to have very few developed lines, but tons of potential...

[clm]

I hate it when people leave their dead pets at the crag

Ditto.

[moose]

Okay, my own punterish leanings are probably no guide to the preferences of UK-wads abroad,  but perhaps the preference for overseas "stamina fests" is more to do with what's fun and looks good than what you're necessarily suited to? 

Myself, given long-term opportunity, I climb my hardest grades on short, intense and crimpy boulder problems that suit a technical, static style.  Yet, on holiday, I gravitate to the opposite: lengthy steepness, hurling myself between jugs with abandon.  It's because when I'm on holiday, I'm on holiday, not at work.  Of course I want a nice ticklist, but mainly I want to have fun: onsighting lots of different stuff and not risking valuable time on things that might need beta and a very patient belayer to red-point.  And, at least in the areas I've climbed, the steep juggy routes seem most amenable to quickly bagging lots of 3 star classics.  Such climbs are not necessarily easier, but their difficulties are mostly physical: the sequences are fairly obvious and the conviction born of an iminent return to the UK seems to compensate for a lack of native beta.  Also... the look of those long steep routes just gives me the mojo to try them, regardless of what years in the UK have suited me to: a massive orange-streaked, tufa-strewn overhang just looks a lot sexier than 8m of vertical "scoop-of-death" crimpiness of the equivalent grade.

[Franco]

link?

I never get the 'brits are shit argument'.

Sport climbing is not our main past time in the UK. If you compare the world sport limits- F9b? with the current trad limmits- F8c+ in a death situation on a damp mountain crag; then there really isn't much in it. Admittedly there are fewer people operating at a higher level, but then there are far less people and many climbers are rightly not obsessed with being super good- just doing epic lines.