[dave]

No idea. You lot at the ones who want proof off Scott, you tell me what proof entails.

Someone comes along and says Scott flashed the Joker, you lot want proof.

Someone comes along and says Scott can't have flashed the Joker as he worked it, you lot should want proof of that too.

I don't think anyone wants "proof" that he did the joker, rather everyone wants him put into the context of someone who's claims are believeable. Good indicators of credibilty include an openness of information, clarity, consistency etc. Anyway, it would be impossible for scott to proove he's flashed the joker unless he provided uninperrupted footage of his entire life up to that point. On the other hand, if someone says they saw him working it then thats just at this stage second hand circumstantial evidence, however whichever side of the fence you're sitting thats a lot more than we currently have to support the scenario that these ascents did happen. since no-one seems to be willing to say they've seen him, for whatever reason.

It's nothing to do with me, thankfully I don't know any sources involved and have no vested interest in the issue either way. But as an outside observer, it seems obvious you should all play by the same rules. Honesty and clarity from ALL, yes?

as a climber who climbs and boulders in the peak it does have everything to do with you, and you do have a vested interest in making sure the historical record is as straight as possible. Not least as someone who's involved in the production of BMC guides etc. You've got at least as much reason to want the truth as I have, bearing in mind I've never met scott, or seen him climb, or had any dealings or interaction with his mates or anything. All I'm bothered about is the historical record. Theres no jealousy here, before I knew scott existed there were about 100000 better climbers than me in sheffield, now there are 100001, so I'm about 0.001% more jealous than i was before - i'm sure this is the case for everyone else who's been exercising caution here.

Some people earlier on this thread seem to think that these ascents aren't a big deal and not worth all this discussion. I totally disagree - onsight soloing a grit E8-10 route with just a few pad (and seemingly no spotters....) thats never had that treatment before is big news, especially when the leading trad ground-up heads (bobbins, bransboid etc) recently didn't equal that performance. Plus all the other ticks, flashing the joker, fastest ascent of the ace, flashing brad pit, flashing deliverance above a roll-mat etc etc. If true, scott is one of the best climbers in the world and has already outdone some of the best despite having been climbing 10 minutes. The most tallented grit climbers of his or any preceeding generation, not to mention strong, and yet so young and with god knows what potential? And this isn't a big deal, we have no quarms about taking the most impressive claims made by anyone ever from a rank outsider at face value, without question? some people are tripping. Everyone wants it to be true, cos we've got a new world-beater on our hands. I'm sure haston will be particuarly stoked.

[Jaspersharpe]

What dave said.

[Fiend]

From now on I'm going to take photos every time I see someone trying something hard. That way once they claim to have flashed the problem in question I'll be able to immediately debunk their bogus lies. Oh no hang on that wont work - see dave's post above. This really is getting silly.

From now on I'm going to take photos every time I see my mate doing something hard. That way once any doubters claim he hasn't done the problem in question I'll be able to immediately debunk their bogus lies. Oh no hang on that wont work - see dave's post above. This really is getting silly.

What's the difference??

You guys are wanting some support (if not proof) in favour of Scott's claim. That is fair.

I (representing a neutral observer) am wanting some support in favour of the claims he hasn't done what he says. That is also fair.

Good indicators of credibilty include an openness of information, clarity, consistency etc.

Same applies to the credibility of those who directly accuse him of not having done what he says he has.

And this isn't a big deal, we have no quarms about taking the most impressive claims made by anyone ever from a rank outsider at face value, without question?

I agree, it is fair to question, exactly on that basis.

I don't think it is right to accuse, without abiding by similar standards that you're asking for.

There's a difference between saying "This is quite unusual, I'm not sure whether it has happened, I'd like more proof/whatever" and saying "This is bullshit, he has lied and hasn't done what he says".

I'm not sure what is so difficult about that?? Nor what is so strange about expecting people to fairly abide by the same standards??

[dave]

There's a difference between saying "This is quite unusual, I'm not sure whether it has happened, I'd like more proof/whatever" and saying "This is bullshit, he has lied and hasn't done what he says".

Given enough time and lack of support/witnesses/whatever, the former easily turns into the latter, which is what is happening here.

[Franco]

Now then. The article was not written by me, and it's not my website, but I did edit it as it was gramatically aweful (a few faults still remain), but i'm a strong believer that these claims should be aired. The copley crew swear blind he claims to have climbed the route onsight/flash and apparently he's a real trustworthy guy. The route is obviously not un-flashable, and this guy is obviously a strong climber, so I believe him. I'd like to see solid proof, but think the idea of people doubting the guy is a bit sickening as climbing is completely based on trust. It isn't a francotroll and has very little to do with me to be honest apart from encoraging Liam. A shame my third profile was banned from UKC, but tis the way of Alan James and co. I suppose.

[rginns]

I did edit it as it was gramatically aweful (a few faults still remain),

My, how ironic.

aweful...aweful indeed.

[Paul B]

I was hoping that was a pun?

[rginns]

hmmm.

[Will Hunt]

Welcome to UKB, Franco. Abandon Cocktalk, this forum is much more fun.

[Franco]

  Amazing effort  ,maybe it's just me but the way I see it is that the truth will out in the end anyway, so there's no point being overly sceptical or negative.

History suggest that the truth won't 'out', it never does. Please enlighten me with an example of a contested ascent which has been proved one way or another.
What does happen over time is that rational people form a consensus based on the most likely  explanation of events. Obviously you'll not be part of this process as you clearly equate skepticism with negativity.

New Dimensions Scugdale.

[abarro81]

the best talent in climbing in the last few years

He might have to stop falling off soft 7as at ceuse to deserve that tag.
More fire, more fire, more fire, more...

[Franco]

Welcome to UKB, Franco. Abandon Cocktalk, this forum is much more fun.

cheers.

[fiveknuckle21]

The copley crew swear blind he claims to have climbed the route onsight/flash and apparently he's a real trustworthy guy.

I know I've said my bit on this but come on. 'Erm.. r u 4 real?'

[Jim]

the best talent in climbing in the last few years

He might have to stop falling off soft 7as at ceuse to deserve that tag.
More fire, more fire, more fire, more...

we are all ears

[webbo]

  Amazing effort  ,maybe it's just me but the way I see it is that the truth will out in the end anyway, so there's no point being overly sceptical or negative.

History suggest that the truth won't 'out', it never does. Please enlighten me with an example of a contested ascent which has been proved one way or another.
What does happen over time is that rational people form a consensus based on the most likely  explanation of events. Obviously you'll not be part of this process as you clearly equate skepticism with negativity.

New Dimensions Scugdale.

to quote this route hardly resolves the situation as in order to prove he'd climbed it the first ascentionist demonstrated it in front of an audience.also it was hardly at the cutting edge as there were dozens of routes at this standard elsewhere in the country already.

[abarro81]

we are all ears

Well that's all there is to it - he fell off one of the soft 7as at un point sur l'infini. It doesn't have a huge relevance to the bouldering claims since it's about 30m long and he said he was pumped.. but it did mean I was rather surprised when he claimed the pit/joker as flashes, since it's slightly off vert and i'd have presumed anyone with the techy skills to flash them wouldn't fall off that stuff, no matter how unfit they were. I didn't really see him climb much else since we were usually at different bits of the cliff to him and beth, so he may have crushed there unseen by me and been having a bad day. (p.s. yes, i saw it with my own eyes, no i didn't think it was worth taking a pic of for my 'future beasts failing on easy things' album)

[Stubbs]

It doesn't have a huge relevance to the bouldering claims since it's about 30m long and he said he was pumped..

holy shit - i reckon you could put a lot of 8B boulderers on a just off vertical 30 m route and watch them get pumped and fall off.

[Jaspersharpe]

It doesn't have a huge relevance to the bouldering claims since it's about 30m long and he said he was pumped..

holy shit - i reckon you could put a lot of 8B boulderers on a just off vertical 30 m route and watch them get pumped and fall off.

I don't if it was a soft 7a.

[Johnny Brown]

The copley crew swear blind he claims to have climbed the route onsight/flash

What on earth is this supposed to add? I don't think anyone needs proof he has made the claims, its the climbing folk are interested in.

[dave]

I don't think you can really compare performance on a 1 move 8a problem with a 30m F7a. I'd rate that as irrelevent to the issue.

[abarro81]

It was more me saying that I don't think you can give the 'best talent in climbing in recent years' tag to someone who climbs that badly on routes. I'll not pretend I didn't think Jim would enjoy the titbit though.

[Jaspersharpe]

I'd like to see solid proof, but think the idea of people doubting the guy is a bit sickening as climbing is completely based on trust.

How to totally contradict yourself and make absolutely no sense in one easy sentence.

[Jim]

I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy that titbit - thanks - but really I just like to know all the facts

[Fiend]

Jesus fucking cock, why did this have to be resurrected when it was just starting to die the death it should have had before ever appearing.

Cookson, you're the last thing Scott needs.

Barrows, you're a disgrace, that's just as bad as the imbeciles on the other side.

Delete or Shit Heap FFS.

[lagerstarfish]

I am very much out of practice, overweight, unfit etc. , but today I climbed an easy 7a+ near vertical route on plastic (loads of witnesses). No one has ever witnessed me failing on an 8b boulder problem let alone got any photos or video of me failing to get up one.

What I would like to know is - what hard boulder problems or micro routes do people reccommend that i try to claim ascents of in order to feel better about myself and maybe impress my peers?

PS
there is no recent footage or pics of me climbing at all (due to not climbing), so no one will have a clue about what I've done recently - hope this helps.

PPS
should I get Jasper to make my claims instead of me so that it looks more like I'm not bothered what people think?

thank fuck its friday