[Ferrito]

Incredible  Excellent continued work by the Americans.... They seem to be destroying everything! What's left????

[GCW]

I believe there's an unrepeated slab/wall somewhere in the Rivelin area.  Anyone know anything about it?

[saintlade]

Skills.    Wandered briefly past around about lunch time today en route to the Hueco wall. Was this why Cratcliffe was so damned rammed today? Seemed to be a lot of peeps kicking about. Once again good effort, are there any last great lines for these johnny foreigners to crush into submission and show the way?

[nik at work]

I believe there's an unrepeated slab/wall somewhere in the Rivelin area.  Anyone know anything about it?

That's just a boulder problem, these crazy highballing yanks wouldn't be interested, although there is an unrepeated E8 arete in the area...

More seriously maybe they should head up to Widdop? If they do I'll provide them with lunch, dinner and as much tea and coffee as they can drink. And they can borrow my mat. Come on boys....

[GCW]

There's always Equilibrium to flash.
But yes, Widdop Wall needs to get done.

[Bubba]

The guy is having quite a good holiday - now it's getting proper cold too...

[Drew]

There's the unclimbed wall at Lawrencefield, unless I'm mistaken and some bold, technical bastard has climbed it. Y'know, the big wall in the quarry just below the road.

P.S. Effort, even though I expected it

[GCW]

Kevin Jorgeson has repeated almost all of The Groove at Cratcliffe. He opted to finish up the top section of Fern Hill, avoiding a safe but difficult upper eliminate sequence used by James Pearson on the first ascent. James originally climbed an upper line squeezed between Nut Cracker and Fern Hill.

I wanted to know what it would be like to fall from the worse possible place. So, I pulled up Cooper's rope to the break, counted to three, and let go. George took a few steps back and I landed with a hard thud, 5 feet above the ground. Ouch. Didn't need to have George run back after all. The gear held perfectly and I landed safely below the small foot-ledge from which the route's crux sequence begins. All in all, I'd say the route is technically the hardest bit of climbing I have done on the trip, but in the scheme of things, safe.

Extremely hard routes, such as those put up by Miles Gibson, feature moves just as hard as The Groove (yes, I have tried some, namely, Superstition*). These climbs can be just as safe as E1's, but because of their physical difficulty, receive an E-grade upwards of E8. I think The Groove falls into this category, of safe and hard. And beautiful. What an amazing, unique and rewarding route.

Kevin has suggested that the crux moves of The Groove would merit a bouldering grade of Font 7C+ (V10).

[GCW]

http://www.kevinjorgeson.com/Travels.pdf[/url]]Today I climbed a route that has been holding my interest for quite some time: The Groove! I
succeeded on my first lead attempt of the day, in decent conditions.
For those unfamiliar with The Groove, the name comes from the obvious groove at the bottom of the
wall below Fern Hill. The main challenge, is and always has been this obvious feature. As the groove
continues upward, it fades and the line becomes ambiguous. I had to call people to figure out the
original line. As you will read, James and I interpreted the upper wall differently, at no fault of either of
us.
I spent a total of four days on the climb. On my first day, I managed all of the lower moves. I spent my
second and third days attempting the top arete sequence, which felt nearly impossible for my size.
Coupled with the fact that I had to avoid a ledge (and easier climbing) just to the side, I decided to
finish climb the route in the most natural, fun way that I could imagine. So, on my fourth day, today, I
just decided to go for it and finish up the classic Fern Hill. I stuck the one-handed move, pinched the
pebble, made the two extremely tenuous (and for me, crux) foot moves, and dynoed to the break.
Wearing a grin on my face the rest of the way, I cruised up the jugs on Fern Hill all the way to the top
of the wall and into the sunshine.
I placed two cams at ground level to keep me from getting clipped in a fall. To protect the crux, I
placed one small slider nut and one #3 HB offset wire, both clipped to the same single carabiner. I
used one rope and no crash pads at the base.
After sending, we went back to shoot close-ups. When that was all over, I wanted to know what it
would be like to fall from the worse possible place. So, I pulled up Cooper’s rope to the break,
counted to three, and let go. George took a few steps back and I landed with a hard thud, 5 feet
above the ground. Ouch. Didn’t need to have George run back after all. The gear held perfectly and I
landed safely below the small foot-ledge from which the route’s crux sequence begins. All in all, I’d
say the route is technically the hardest bit of climbing I have done on the trip, but in the scheme of
things, safe.
As for a grade? I have no idea. It climbs like a 7c+ boulder problem in good conditions. So, safe 7a?
I’m beginning to get a grasp of the E-grade system, but where I am confused, is where and how the
technical grade influences the E-grade. At first I thought, with two grades for one route, they are
independent of one another. One accounts for the physical difficulty and the other accounts for the
danger. Where it is seems to blur is with the high end routes. Extremely hard routes, such as those
put up by Miles Gibson (like Superstition), feature moves just as hard as The Groove, but are safe.
These climbs can be just as safe as E1’s, but because of their physical difficulty, receive an E-grade
upwards of E8. I think The Groove falls into this category, of safe and hard. And beautiful. What an
amazing, unique and rewarding route. I only hope that more people go to check it out! I can think of a
handful of the extremely talented grit climbers I have met on this trip that are well capable of The
Groove, if the inspiration is such.
While this is not technically the second ascent of The Groove (is it?), as I did not follow the original
line at the top, I have no regrets and encourage all to climb whatever inspires them. After all, isn’t that
what its all about?

[Andy F]

Skills.    Wandered briefly past around about lunch time today en route to the Hueco wall. Was this why Cratcliffe was so damned rammed today?

Funny, I was there today, it was rammed. We heard about the visitors, decided not to bother going for a look and headed over to Robin Hood's instead. Which was quiet. And nice.

[PATRuL]

well done

[slackline]

Good effort.

Was bouldering flailing around on the boulders too, should have popped round the corner to have a look (took pictures of a friendly robin whilst resting though).

[n_man]

8a also reports him soloing Meshuga. Probably been mentioned somewhere on here already.

Would love to hear of a FA of Impossible Groove Burbage South or other really hard FA.

[Johnny Brown]

There's always Equilibrium to flash.

Worth noting Kevin has already had a few sessions on Equilibrium. With less success. Reach might be a problem, but I'm thinking its more just plain hard.

[SA Chris]

Great effort. Would really be the cherry on the cake if they manage a FA.

[Adam Lincoln]

Seems he has settled for E8 now for the version he did.

[gangle]

So pearson has potentially overgraded yet another route, does anyone see a pattern developing???

[Paul B]

easy tiger...

[dave]

So pearson has potentially overgraded yet another route, does anyone see a pattern developing???

anyone doing any new route is "potentially" overgrading it, nature of the beast. and since no-one else has repeated the line james did (rightly or wrongly the line he did might be eliminate or whatever), no-one is yet in a position to make a judgement.

[Will Hunt]

Has grit given him everything in its arsenal? Its time he headed to Wales.

[Ru]

and since no-one else has repeated the line james did (rightly or wrongly the line he did might be eliminate or whatever), no-one is yet in a position to make a judgement.

I don't wish to comment on the grade of the Groove at all, but that statement is clearly wrong. Using information made available by everyone that has been on a route it is perfectly possible to come up with a valid judgement about the route's difficulty. Route difficulty doesn't form some strange part of the universe in which normal reasoning  does not apply.

[north_country_boy]

I agree with Ru. And especially in the case of KJ on the Groove, as he has repeated the crux lower half, which also formed the 'bold' part of the route....

E10? E11? I along with everyone I have spoken too, think not.

[dave]

yeah but the "information made available" is that he did the same start, found pearson's finish impossible (morpho?), and did an easier finish instead. I don't see how that necessarily means that pearson overgraded the route, as someone was implying. if the top bit is really hard then it could eaily bump E8 into E10, dangerous or not (wasn't there something in the reports at the time about the top section being bold?) Of course it could well turn out that he overgraded it, but you can't make the assumption based on the available information, especially since i'm sure virtually no-one on here will have tried, seen anyone on, or otherwise have any real grasp of what the top section is like. I certainly don't so will reserve judgement until its gets a repeat.

i read that posters comments to be based on some kinda of notion that he's got form for overgrading. i'm guessing that somehow comes from the Promise episode, but I read all the info about that rightly (new beta, how much to you trust sliders, using mats etc) then to jump to the overgrading conclusion would be a gross oversimplification of the situation.

At the end of the day, is overgrading a crime these days? you forget the pearon has form for doing established hard routes (knocking, equilibrium etc) long before doing the promise and the groove, and pedigree for bouldering too (8b flashes?) so its not as if his marketable sponsorship ting will be resting entirely on the back of promise or groove being E10 rather than E9 or whatever. Even if they both turned out to be E5s they're still uberclass long standing lines.

[Jaspersharpe]

If The Groove was only E8 then some cunt would have done it years ago. It's not as if nobody tried. 

[Palomides]

If The Groove was only E8 then some cunt would have done it years ago. It's not as if nobody tried. 

Without commenting on the grade, I do wonder how many of the people who have had a go were trying to climb inside the groove, instead of using the right arete? Remember that Brad Pit was originally "the hardest move on grit" until a visiting Frenchman bunged his foot on and changed the way everyone thought about it.


Is there an echo around here?