[SA Chris]

IMO keep the comp wall as a comp wall, that's wht it's a comp wall and called a comp wall.

Munkii, what is your understanding of the meaning of the term "comp"?

Go on, have a guess? You shouldn't pass on a question, passes count against you in the even of draw.

[dave]

can I also make a plea that whatever gets done with the traiing board can it happen ASAP rather than later. at the moment you can hardly get on the training board at times because of the non-stop traversing, one person starts when the last person is half way over, thus you're screwed till they get bored.

there must be plenty of space on the wall elsewhere for these stamina plods.

[Jaspersharpe]

 

[Stu Littlefair]

there must be plenty of space on the wall elsewhere for these stamina plods.

People keep saying this but where!!? there isn't another square inch of wall that isn't too busy for circuits, and the training wall is the least busy section par excellence.

Fair enough if you want to stop people doing circuits so you can have your dirty crimps back, but don't kid yourself that you'll be stopping other people using the wall for their own purposes.

[dave]

you could plonk a stamina loop on just about any of the steeper panels - most of the have got a very low hold density compared to the training board, and it'd be better to spread the burden of the enduro-wads rather than just bumming it together on one wall.

at the end of the day even without these set loops, you could train stamina by climbing up and then down any existing problems than linking into another one etc. and don't forget jugs get in the way of small holds, but not vice versa, so they need to be positioned sympathetically. most of the non-training walls have enough large holds anyway that the enduro-circuits wouldn't have a negative impact.

On a final note, are these things even that good for training endurance really? they seem to be very specicif training for people with ambitions of figure-of-eight loops on juggy pockets etc, but are way to long for effective training for british type power stamina problems (green trav, extended warefare, jerry's traverse, weedkiller trav etc) and thus way too big holds. since its largely sideways movement, and not having to stop for clips, i'd also wager that they aren't that great for route training either, or at least not as good as doing indoor routes. most brit sport routes aren't even as steep as the training board.

lets face it, in a wall with all this space, i see no reason that enduro shit and power training should have to be crammed into one little corner like common lepers. getting rid of a 10ft section of vertical wall somewhere wouldn't be a drop in the font-circuit ocean, but would make a vast difference for harder training.

[slackline]

 

Surely its simple to make your own easier circuits using the up-problems on the board to the left of the training board 

[soapy]

phew!



all this talk of training makes me glad i only go there for a cup of coffee

[Stu Littlefair]

You didn't address the point that all the other sections of wall are too busy for people to do circuits, regardless of whether the angle or holds are suitable.

And yes, these circuits are excellent for training, for power endurance routes and longer routes too. Circuits of 25 to 100 moves or so form a major part of the training of most spanish beasts I talk to, together with campusing and the like for strength. It seems to get them fit enough...

[Jaspersharpe]

People keep saying this but where!!? there isn't another square inch of wall that isn't too busy for circuits

There have been stamina circuits set on that bit of wall (L of board) before for God's sake and on the Comp wall. They were fine and didn't get in the way of the font circuit problems or the Comp wall problems. Why is this suddenly not possible?

Stu you're banging a well meaning but out of time drum. i.e. You are wrong. 

[jfw]

there was a pink swirl circuit on the wall left of the training board - it was good but impossible to climb on if like me you work full time and can only go the wall on evenings 

you need a seperate bit of wall for doing stamina circuits - the training board became that bit of wall - and the prevalence of "routes" over up problems was due to sam sitting and seeing who was using that board more.

[slackline]

What about sacraficing the section thats plastered in volumes to the left of the archway as your stood with your back to the competition wall.  Wouldn't be a massive loss to the Font-esque circuits and would keep those doing stamina loops in one place.

[travs]

Well I don't agree with you Dave / Jasper. I don't like circuits on the other walls and I really don't like the easy spotty traverse of the gods which has all sorts of inept punters shaking out on the slabs for gods sake


The training board is as it says a training board, the only issue is the respect which is shown between the different users. If people are hogging it for circuits just tell them to give you break and fuck for a while.

Circuit trainging is hugely important for both bouldering and routing - when done properly. It really winds me up when I see people hanging on for ever by stopping and shaking out as if they are on a route - if this is what they are trying to train they really should be on routes. Power endurance training is all about continuous movement with no shaking out so enabling you to pull out hard moves after performing many non recoverable moves - so maybe The Works needs to do a bit of education for the users as well.

[dave]

Circuits of 25 to 100 moves or so form a major part of the training of most spanish beasts I talk to, together with campusing and the like for strength.

thats just circumstantial, shirley? doesn't mean that wouldn't get better results doing something different. there isn't any old saying or wives tale i could use here, but if there was it'd be along the lines of "climbing sideways and downwards only gets you good at climbing sideways and downwards".

but this is all beside the point. its no skin of my nose if people want to do these things. just lets not try to cram stamina on big holds and power on small holds into the same tiny section of a massive wall.

[Monolith]

give you a break and fuck for a while.

I'm down for that subject to attraction.

[Stu Littlefair]

Well, I agree it's not the best solution to have tiny holds and big jugs on the same section of wall, but I don't think there's an easy solution because most of the wall is rightly devoted to the majority of paying customers, which doesn't leave a lot of wall space.

And your old saying doesn't exist 'cos it's just wrong and silly. It's like saying campusing only gets you good at climbing on 1/4" wooden slats with no feet. My evidence might be circumstantial, but if you are trying to get good at climbing it might be an idea to copy what the best in the world are doing....

[a dense loner]

i'm not getting up at some godforsaken hour and cycling to any crag thank you very much

[abarro81]

Intense circuits for PE, long capiliarisation on quiet parts of the wall to raise anaerobic threshold, but surely some longer circuits - 5 minutes ish, which seems to be about 2 circuits worth on that board at a low-ish pace - is going to replicate longer hard sections on stamina routes. Perhaps working the link where you're using both anaerobic and aerobic systems, getting pumped over a bit longer than 15-30 move PE brutality. This seems to be what I encounter on most pumpy routes outside (though obviously a lot of stuff in the uk is more short, hard, PE stuff).

Perhaps my training is misguided.. educate me! I certainly got the fittest I've ever been whilst in europe this summer, where I was mainly just onsighting/quickly redpointing routes which would take 5-20 minutes most of the time.. if my experience of ceuse is anything to go by, shaking out on jugs on overhanging ground gets you very good at shaking out on jugs on overhanging ground, which seemed to translate well to onsighting in europe.

Routes training would probably be better for me than traversing, but it can be hard to find people psyched for routes sessions a lot of the time.
I've lost any point I was trying to make in there somewhere..

[Percy B]

In a nut-shell, here is some feedback from this thread.

The Works does not currently have room for a 45 degree training board - we'd like one, but at this moment we haven't got anywhere to put a board that will make us proud so we aren't going to build any new bits onto what we already have. This does not mean that at some point in the next 9 months we won't find time and space to build a new board, but at the moment it is not an option.

Therefore, we will all have to make do with the wall we already have. Its not a bad board, but its obvious that we can do a few things to make it better. So, we'll sort out the circuits (clean, reset, etc) and maybe have a few less this time to free up space for up-problems. Some of the good, classic up-problems will be cleaned and kept, and some of the less popular ones will be binned and replaced with new, clean and clearly colour-coded new problems of a similar standard. We'll probably do this work at the start of next week, all things being equal.

Thanks for everybodies opinions - its worth bearing in mind that the opinions expressed by UKB members represent a very small percentage of the number of people who actually use this training board, so whilst we appreciate all the feedback, we can't act on all of it as it would upset more people than it would make happy. As always, its a fine balancing act but at least we are listening. Ta!

[slackline]

As always, its a fine balancing act but at least we are listening. Ta!

[dave]

sounds good to me. looking forward to some new problems.

[grumpycrumpy]

give you break and fuck for a while.

I haven't been to The Works for a while .... Has it turned into a some kind of bouldering wall/knocking shop hybrid ?

[robertostallioni]

I'll have a latte, a chai tea, a pogo pump and an elevator ride around the block, please. No milk in the chai.

[Munkii]

i know it's off topic but i need to prove a point.
http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?action=ownkarma;u=3007

SHE DIED BEFORE I WAS BORN!!

Plaintive nonsense.



 

[Paul B]

Therefore, we will all have to make do with the wall we already have. Its not a bad board, but its obvious that we can do a few things to make it better. So, we'll sort out the circuits (clean, reset, etc) and maybe have a few less this time to free up space for up-problems. Some of the good, classic up-problems will be cleaned and kept, and some of the less popular ones will be binned and replaced with new, clean and clearly colour-coded new problems of a similar standard. We'll probably do this work at the start of next week, all things being equal.

Sounds good.
The black problem on the RHS is really nice, if at all possible can you try and make a few that are hard without being utterly dirty problems (bigger moves between holds that arent sold for the feet) that make my fingers ache. Thanks!

[dave]

Ditto that paul (though i never thought either of the black problems were that great). a lot of the holds on there now either feel like finger jugs (like all those nice chunky moon screwons) or are nano-1/4 pad rippers, but not a lot inbetween.