[tim palmer]

Have they reset the comp wall recently?

[Paul B]

there were a few extra problems added recently but no I don't think so.
They have a big comp coming up so maybe it'll see a reset around then? I think a few of the circuits are coming down shortly as well.

[Percy B]

We're resetting the comp wall next Thursday/Friday in preparation for round one of our bouldering league on Friday night (14th Nov). We've had a busy month or so, so we've not reset the comp wall for nearly 5 weeks  - most of this due to the fact that I have been 'enjoying' the sights and sounds of Moscow (setting a comp) for the last 15 days. There will be a new hard circuit set in the next week or so too - the yellow circuit is being replaced with another one of similar difficulty (ie: hard)

[dave]

can I make a request: that times when parts of the wall are going to be closed for setting be put on the website? just so if you're coming hell bent on a curcuit or a comp wall session you're not wasting your time etc. cheers

[Andy Harris]

Didn’t realise there was a works thread but seeing as Percy is an avid Ukbouldering viewer just wanted to raise something.

Basically it’s a few frustrating things about the training board that unless you actually tell anyone things are unlikely to get done.

The up problems on this board are great but now they’ve been up for a year or so they are so filthy they are just unpleasant to climb. Because it’s not to steep and the holds tend to be v. small this makes a big problem. Basically either the problems need to be cleaned and re-set (thereby keeping the original problems) or a new set problems put up (keep em dirty fingery as it’s the only chance I get to burn off the young guns). The regulars don’t really do too many eliminates so I don’t think this will destroy 1000’s of quality problems.

Circuits, circuits bloody circuits. I am fed up of people spending 10/20mins circling the board on jugs when I want a few 20s goes. There are far too many circuits on the board which not only get in the way of the up problems but in the main are so easy anybody and everybody climbs on them. Now I don’t want to be accused of being elitist but 3 circuits should be enough (1 hard, 8b/c ish, 1med, 8aish, 1 easy, 7bish).

Basically this board doesn’t know what it wants to be. For me there are half a dozen circuits in the facility so why do we need loads of them on the training board. Last year it was fun, new etc but now it needs rejuvenating.

[dave]

i would second arthur on the above point. the existing up-problems are great, but we need more of them on the board, scrap most of the circuits. also more random holds in general for eliminates. also make the topo a bit easier to use - its a nightmare at present, and the photo-topo is a bit non-plus because the wall is painted in a very dark busy paintjob, which means you can't really make out what is what on the topo (why a training board needs painting at all is beyond me, or at least paint it a uniform white/grey).

or to put it another way, do you want everyone to think the foundry has got the best training board? cos right now it has.

[abarro81]

From another point of view (a stamina trad/sport lover), the circuits on the training board are the only reason I ever go to the works rather than the foundry...

[abarro81]

Though I'd advocate turning the training board into a no-circuits-zone and making the entire leaning wall left of it purely contain lots of circuits, all involving lots of up-down-up stuff.. I doubt that's likely though.

[Andy Harris]

It's a good suggestion and I guess could the works do without the 3/4 problems per circuit that this bit of wall offers. 40 off problem circuits down 3/4 problems? I totally appreciate that there are lots of people focussing on endurance and that this type of training is vital to them.

Maybe it could be tested?

In the past when I've made suggestions to Sam/Percy they've been v.receptive as they seem v. consumer focussed.

[Jaspersharpe]

with Andy 100%.

Funny, I mentioned exactly the same points in an email ealier today.

The circuits have ruined the training board. Some of the harder problems are virtually impossible now because of the number of massive fuck off jugs in the way. If they aren't in the way of the handholds so you can't actually get to them then you either smash your knees on them when making foot movements or crack your elbows on them trying to throw for an edge etc.

The fact that there are all these easy circuits also means that there are loads of people standing all over the small handholds so they are not only caked in chalk but covered in rubber. This means that even if you can get to the holds, it's fucking unpleasant trying to use them. I got totally sick of falling off because my fingers were snapping off the frictionless greasy holds.

Unlike Andy I don't mind being accused of being elitist on this one and I'm not even strong. The only reason I've not mentioned anything before is that I assumed it was only me who was annoyed!

The training board was really useful for me last winter, I loved it. But now it's been completely spoiled and I'm pissed off. There is enough easy climbing at The Works for one little bit of the wall to be kept as a proper training board with a good set of hard up problems and, as Andy says, a couple of circuits for the stamina louts. The kids and punters have plenty to go at, let's have a few feet of dirty crimpiness for the not quite so crap. Please.

In the past when I've made suggestions to Sam/Percy they've been v.receptive as they seem v. consumer focussed.

This is true. As I say I don't want to sound like a whinging twat as I've not mentioned it to them directly.

[travs]

I don't think it would be a good idea to put cicuits on the wall to the left of the training board - it's not steep enough and people would hang on for ever. It's also one of the most realistic angles when thinking about the other boards on the circuits. I know Sam cleaned the training board holds mid summer and it is soley down to overuse that the holds are once again minging, goes hand in hand with its popularity I'm afraid! I am with you on the quantity of circuits and agree that 3 would be enough. I don't think putting random holds back onto the wall is a good idea, this is how it used to be and the board didn't get used a great deal. I would say focus on high quality dirty problems. Keep 4 or 5 defacto problems at say 7b, 7b+, 7c, 7c+ and 8a which remain constant and keep updating say another  10-15 problems every 4 months or so.

[Jaspersharpe]

Spot on Neil.

[dave]

the old board with random holds was actually quite good - i think the main reason it got neglected was because everyone was caught up with the novelty of circuits at that time (i.e. when the wall was new), and even after resetting, last winter still the proportion of people using that bit of wall was FUCK ALL in the grand scheme of things, even on the busiest of nights. to me this is a pluss point!

if there were added a few more defacto problems then the need for extra random holds would be diminished, granted, assuming the hold spread was even enough. still even now when trying to set your own shit on there you come across areas with no holds, or all the same type of hold. bearing in mind that of the entire 1000m² or whatever of climbing surface, theres only this small section that is in any way suitable for setting your own shit. the hold density on the comp wall is rarely sufficient, for example, so you've only got the board bit. I like having the set problems there but there must be a happy medium, i.e. benchmarks to aim at but still enough freedom to improvise.

[travs]

Sorry Dave but I disagree. I didn't like the old setup - too many big holds to clatter your knuckles on and too many holds in general making it very confusing. Also with the amount of traffic we are talking about it would be virtually impossible to keep taking the holds off clean them and put them back in the same place. I also think the circuits are very important, it is still the best way of training power endurance and the angle of the board lends itself perfectly to that purpose. In addition don't forget that a lot of people train during the day so don't judge it's use by what you see in the evening. In terms of making your own problems, this was certainly still possible prior to the big trimming down over the summer and I believe if they take down a couple of cicuits and put more up problems back on the board then we will be back to a happy medium.

[Percy B]

I shall speak with Sam as to what we shall do, as this board is his baby really. Personally, my temptation would be to strip the whole board, then reset 3 circuits and fill the rest of the board with colour coded up problems from hard to the living end, and to reset once a year to keep it fresh - the emphasis for everything being quality as well as sheer difficulty. Its true that the board is a small part of the overall wall area, and so we can maybe afford to make everything on it hard for the hardcore training types... As ever, we take everyones thoughts and ideas on board, so any more suggestions are always welcome. Within reason, of course.....

[dave]

As ever, we take everyones thoughts and ideas on board

nice punning.

[Jaspersharpe]

Nice one Percy. For me your idea sounds ideal. 

[Bonjoy]

Personally, my temptation would be to strip the whole board, then reset 3 circuits and fill the rest of the board with colour coded up problems from hard to the living end, and to reset once a year to keep it fresh - the emphasis for everything being quality as well as sheer difficulty.

This sounds ideal to me

[a dense loner]

and me. however can you make some almost identical to a ladder with painful holds so that only a few venture their eyes upon them

[alaan]

The circuits on that board are also the only reason I would visit The Works instead of the Foundry - even the easier ones are good to have for the super dedicated stamina-pony to link harder circuits. It's much better for stamina/power endurance than routes anywhere else as you've no wasted time belaying partners/tying ropes on, just drinking coffee and reading old magazines instead! Sounds as if there needs to be two training boards! The wall to the left I would have thought would be ok for circuits (is it around 20 degrees?) - just need to make it fingery enough, no?

Al

[jfw]

I like doing the "routes" circuits on that board

They're too hard for me - but some people like the up problems

it seems to me...

what we need is a routes/circuit board and a seperate training up problems board!

[Fiend]

I don't use the training board but from what I've seen I support the idea that it should be specifically tailored to what the hardcore training boys want, for the obvious reasons.

[Andy Harris]

Agree with you Neil that school style (ie/ loads of holds) just didn't work on this board. If people want to make eliminate stuff up on the set problems they will.

You say the holds were removed and cleaned mid summer? Do you mean removed, powerwashed & reset or just scrubbed hard with a wire brush? They really are hideous now.

It's a good idea to have some benchmark standards say up to 8a/+ and then change the othehr stuff but less regulalry than the comp wall (3months + seems enough time for people to do, get wired and then have new stuff before they get too familiar.

Sounds like people are broadly in the same agreement so let's see what Sam thinks.

[Bonjoy]

With route circuits of say sport grade 7b/+, 7c/+ and 8a/+?
Regards said circuits, IMO it’s vastly preferable to have them using footholds of the same colour. I hate having to work out if something is a screw-on or not mid-crux!

Here’s another one whilst we’re on a wishlist mission. Even with a quick turnover of probs on the comp wall, a lot of users rapidly reach a point where they have done everything they feasibly can. At the Foundry and The Edge this wasn’t so much of a problem as you could go back and do the same problems a second time, this time only using features for feet and sometimes a third time just using bolt-ons for feet. In an ideal world I’d love it if a smattering of pretty shit foothold resin features (or even painted over screw-ons) were added across the steep bits of the comp wall. I know this would also please the shorties no end, who often complain about holds being out of reach and a lack of intermediate footers. Failing that it would be good if problems were set with a mind to maximum recyclability i.e. maybe with smaller holds closer together and more intermediate footholds.

[Fiend]

In an ideal world I’d love it if a smattering of pretty shit foothold resin features (or even painted over screw-ons) were added across the steep bits of the comp wall. I know this would also please the shorties no end, who often complain about holds being out of reach and a lack of intermediate footers.

Totally agree with this.