[slab_happy]

Enjoying Stewart Lee's absolute refusal to let go of this subject:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/07/the-right-is-as-stale-as-its-woke-national-trust-scones-gambit

[mrjonathanr]

This:

But why does Restore Trust want control of the National Trust so badly? Is it about the properties? The land? Or can it really be that Legatum’s Dubai-based backers just really love scones made with butter? I think we should be told.

is an excellent question. Why the NT, exactly?

[andy popp]

I suppose it's because of its role in preserving and protecting national heritage. Its work, and the histories of many of the properties it owns, inevitably places it at the heart of current history wars. The relatively recent decision to, in some cases, present more challenging, previously overlooked histories has probably also challenged identities that some people hold dear. I'm sure the membership skews heavily middle-class, white, and older (this isn't a dig, I was a member for years). Going to visit National Trust properties at the weekend is something "people like us" do. It was cozy. See a nice house, have a cream tea, buy some pot pourri.

But overwhelmingly, the outrage is driven not by the membership but by dark money and the reason there is surely pretty simple: as a membership organization (rather than a government body) it is inherently vulnerable to takeover/capture. That Restore Trust has singularly failed to do that so far is a testament to the membership.

[mrjonathanr]

Thanks for the reply. We fit the profile and want to enjoy the heritage of landscape and estates the Trust conserves. I think- without solid evidence, of course- that a lot of ‘people like us’ are actually very comfortable with a more honest and nuanced appraisal of the legacy of the past and how it was all built.

The Tufton Street agenda appears the very cliche of culture war nostalgia and I can see the power of capturing an organisation as large and respected as NT. I can’t help but wonder if that’s the limit of their objectives. The Trust holds a huge amount of property. I wonder what they would like to do with it, given an opportunity. There’s a lot of money there.

[stone]

I was wondering whether it might be a battle between "elite types". It isn't really about the National Trust in itself. Rather it is theatrics to get news time to try and influence wider public sentiment.

In the UK elites of various sorts grab a disproportionate amount of power and privilege. That depends on the acquiescence of the wider public. My impression is that the whole "culture wars" thing is an attempt by right-wing-reactionary elites to wrest control from "woke" elites by trying to discredit  them in the eyes of the wider public.

To me the take home message is that it is absolutely crucial that any attempt at progressive politics makes sure it doesn't just have privileged and affluent  membership and influence. If progressive politics were genuinely from and empowering people from across society -rather than supposedly being "for" them- then divide and rule tactics from the right would pose little danger.

I'm happy to be corrected about this.

[spidermonkey09]

Thanks for the reply. We fit the profile and want to enjoy the heritage of landscape and estates the Trust conserves. I think- without solid evidence, of course- that a lot of ‘people like us’ are actually very comfortable with a more honest and nuanced appraisal of the legacy of the past and how it was all built.

The Tufton Street agenda appears the very cliche of culture war nostalgia and I can see the power of capturing an organisation as large and respected as NT. I can’t help but wonder if that’s the limit of their objectives. The Trust holds a huge amount of property. I wonder what they would like to do with it, given an opportunity. There’s a lot of money there.

What do you think they would like to do with it?

[slab_happy]

This:

But why does Restore Trust want control of the National Trust so badly? Is it about the properties? The land? Or can it really be that Legatum’s Dubai-based backers just really love scones made with butter? I think we should be told.

is an excellent question. Why the NT, exactly?

I suspect it's less to do with the National Trust itself, and more about using it as a battleground for performative culture wars aimed at a wider audience.

Lots of Daily Mail or Telegraph readers who may not actually be National Trust members themselves but are susceptible to the idea that the Heritage Of The Nation is being trampled on by these "woke" types who want to drag it down, etc., and these heroic people at Restore Trust are trying to save the NT from the tofu-eating wokerati who have infiltrated it to forcibly veganize its scones.

[mrjonathanr]

Thanks for the reply. We fit the profile and want to enjoy the heritage of landscape and estates the Trust conserves. I think- without solid evidence, of course- that a lot of ‘people like us’ are actually very comfortable with a more honest and nuanced appraisal of the legacy of the past and how it was all built.

The Tufton Street agenda appears the very cliche of culture war nostalgia and I can see the power of capturing an organisation as large and respected as NT. I can’t help but wonder if that’s the limit of their objectives. The Trust holds a huge amount of property. I wonder what they would like to do with it, given an opportunity. There’s a lot of money there.

What do you think they would like to do with it?

No idea mate, just find their relentless pursuit of the NT odd. Perhaps the performative platform it might provide is enough.

[mrjonathanr]

Woke row deer park’s kinky dogging shame.

As attacks on the National Trust have increased, so has public trust in it.

[petejh]

Woke row deer park’s kinky dogging shame.

National Trussed?

[seankenny]

We fit the profile and want to enjoy the heritage of landscape and estates the Trust conserves. I think- without solid evidence, of course- that a lot of ‘people like us’ are actually very comfortable with a more honest and nuanced appraisal of the legacy of the past and how it was all built.

These days “people like us” will include people whose ancestors were very much on the wrong end of the arrangement that led to those lovely country houses…

[mrjonathanr]

All the more reason for re-appraisal then.

[stone]

These days “people like us” will include people whose ancestors were very much on the wrong end of the arrangement that led to those lovely country houses…

I totally agree with you about stuff like Chatsworth being the loot from potato-famine causing Irish landlordism etc.

My impression is that things become even more flaky with older stuff. I'm not up to speed on the latest
genomics, but my impression is that there have been successive massive population replacements since people have been living in UK/Europe. I guess much as Native Americans were largely replaced in North America in more recent centuries. So the people who made the stone-age structures we admire today probably have no modern descendants. That doesn't mean that we can't see them as "our" heritage as UK residents (whether we moved here a month ago or many generations ago).

[tomtom]

Thanks for the reply. We fit the profile and want to enjoy the heritage of landscape and estates the Trust conserves. I think- without solid evidence, of course- that a lot of ‘people like us’ are actually very comfortable with a more honest and nuanced appraisal of the legacy of the past and how it was all built.

The Tufton Street agenda appears the very cliche of culture war nostalgia and I can see the power of capturing an organisation as large and respected as NT. I can’t help but wonder if that’s the limit of their objectives. The Trust holds a huge amount of property. I wonder what they would like to do with it, given an opportunity. There’s a lot of money there.

What do you think they would like to do with it?

No idea mate, just find their relentless pursuit of the NT odd. Perhaps the performative platform it might provide is enough.

To answer this Q Jonathan, the NT has 6 million members. It is by a very long way the largest of any such organisation in Europe.. Its membership is c.10 times that of the membership of ALL the Uk political parties...

If I were operating for a right wing think tank/pressure group wanting to make/hijack an agenda, taking control of an organisation with 6 million members would be a masterstroke if I could pull it off...

[andy popp]

Wasn't sure where else to put this, but the National Trust has just appointed its first writer in residence for Brimham:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jul/17/national-trust-appoints-natalie-anastasia-davies-first-writer-residence-brimham-rocks-yorkshire

I expect many people will already know this but Simon Armitage had already written a poem for Brimham (which I didn't know about, though I've seen the one at Cow's Mouth).

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jul/17/national-trust-appoints-natalie-anastasia-davies-first-writer-residence-brimham-rocks-yorkshire