[highrepute]

I spend my days constructing all sorts of stuff with other people so that’s what happens sometimes....

Patios, brick paving, the odd gazebo?

Fred West special.

Doesn't last - you get cavities forming as the bodies decay.

Who's Dan Varian buried under all those patios?

[Fiend]

Franco, hopefully 

[SA Chris]

It’s really only a personal perspective and like you say a minute detail. A bit like knocking a few lumps of rock with a lump hammer means nothing to a farmer or landowner but means a lot to a climber.

True. So you don't do any cleaning yourself, but you are happy cleaning routes that have been climbed by others though, ie most routes?

You sure it's not laziness rather than an ethical stance?

[user deactivated]

All I’m saying is there’s a balance to be had Chris. I remember a few years ago looking up at curbar from the trackside and seeing the heavily (wire?) brushed line of what I think is Drummond base to the right of pea pod. It looked a right mess. I personally wouldn’t have cleaned to that level. What the fuck is it about this forum where everyone extrapolates X and ends up with Z? I stand by minimal impact and try my best to stick to that, I’ve been saying for years shit gets over cleaned. Brushing the shit out of holds is different to brushing scrittle off if that’s what you’re getting at. I’d even say I avoid doing laps on things I’ve done before as it will all end a mountain of scrittle. Crescent arête being a good example.

[tomtom]

I think its very hard to make any sensible comparison between different venues/crags/rocktypes/countries etc... which is why people extrapolate X and end up with Z.

If - no-one were to climb at Curbar for 1 year - many of the problems would look exactly the same.
If - no-one were to climb at some of the quarries I've climbed in Cheshire, the rock will very rapidly return to being covered in green spooge.

At some (popular) crags it has been practice for someone to go around in spring and spray mild bleach solution on the key holds/smears to keep the green at bay... chalk can often have the same effect too...

It is common practice to very heavily wire brush problems on granite (some types) to remove rotten/loose rock - that would be never tolerated on grit or sandstone.

Alot of the above probably happens without anyone noticing...

[SA Chris]

All I’m saying is there’s a balance to be had Chris. I remember a few years ago looking up at curbar from the trackside and seeing the heavily (wire?) brushed line of what I think is Drummond base to the right of pea pod. It looked a right mess. I personally wouldn’t have cleaned to that level. What the fuck is it about this forum where everyone extrapolates X and ends up with Z? I stand by minimal impact and try my best to stick to that, I’ve been saying for years shit gets over cleaned. Brushing the shit out of holds is different to brushing scrittle off if that’s what you’re getting at. I’d even say I avoid doing laps on things I’ve done before as it will all end a mountain of scrittle. Crescent arête being a good example.

Read my original post where i talk about sympathetic and environmental cleaning, the examples you provide are not. You are citing two extreme examples on one very fragile rock type in one very popular area, and have extrapolated from there. Minimal impact is very different from not cleaning.

[user deactivated]

I honestly don’t disagree with anything you’ve said apart from the public service bit, unless you’re* out scrubbing slime off pavements? Sometimes I’m reluctant to brush lichens. 

[SA Chris]

So you don't think giving any route a rush down and a clean, if done in an appropriate and minimalist manner is doing a public service?

[Coops_13]

So you don't think giving any route a rush down and a clean, if done in an appropriate and minimalist manner is doing a public service?

Haven't we got a thread with the purpose of publicising these acts?

[user deactivated]

So you don't think giving any route a rush down and a clean, if done in an appropriate and minimalist manner is doing a public service?

Haha, I stand corrected. I agree with absolutely everything you’ve said.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Do I win £5?

You do from me   

[cheque]

Disclaimer: £5 worth of stuff Dave's picked up in the street.

[Fiend]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CAN SOMEONE PLEASE CHANGE THAT ROGUE APOSTROPHE!!!


I've never been an uber-pedant Peak vs Peaks whining twatface before, but by god it's #triggering me every time I see the recent topics sidebar.... 

[user deactivated]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CAN SOMEONE PLEASE CHANGE THAT ROGUE APOSTROPHE!!!


I've never been an uber-pedant Peak vs Peaks whining twatface before, but by god it's #triggering me every time I see the recent topics sidebar.... 

Pedants always say shit like that

[SA Chris]

You mean "pedant's always say shit like that"

[teestub]

What the fuck is it about this forum where everyone extrapolates X and ends up with Z?

Isn’t that what the Internet is for? And also psychology? 

[SA Chris]

So you don't think giving any route a rush down and a clean, if done in an appropriate and minimalist manner is doing a public service?

Haha, I stand corrected. I agree with absolutely everything you’ve said.

That's not how forums work bro'.

[user deactivated]

Ah the old lose-lose. I’m sure there’s some wisdom in Catch 22 about that. Meanwhile you know the expression ‘I couldn’t beat them away with a shitty stick’?

[Sasquatch]

I think its very hard to make any sensible comparison between different venues/crags/rocktypes/countries etc... which is why people extrapolate X and end up with Z.

If - no-one were to climb at Curbar for 1 year - many of the problems would look exactly the same.
If - no-one were to climb at some of the quarries I've climbed in Cheshire, the rock will very rapidly return to being covered in green spooge.

At some (popular) crags it has been practice for someone to go around in spring and spray mild bleach solution on the key holds/smears to keep the green at bay... chalk can often have the same effect too...

It is common practice to very heavily wire brush problems on granite (some types) to remove rotten/loose rock - that would be never tolerated on grit or sandstone.

Alot of the above probably happens without anyone noticing...

This is really important to understand and teach.  Every place is different. Not just in terms of rock type and weather, but also natural access and traffic from climbers...

This is a really interesting article and viewpoint from a very different area than most people. 
https://gripped.com/articles/the-first-rule-of-dig-club/

[SA Chris]

Great article.

[user deactivated]

So I had a non minimalist day today. It all started out well driving to a breezy crag with perfect route climbing temps on offer. I had a quick ab to brush a few holds, which it turns out didn’t need brushing. Entirely failed to warm up then broke a small - ish but fiercely spear like branch off the tree in the bower. (No main bits, it was a bit rotten honest) then pulled into the roof crack of requiem and stupidly committed to a poor sweaty jam assuming it would be fine. Slipped off going for the break, belayer had to much slack out so I landed on my arse in the tree on an 8 inch wide branch at least 😬. Shaken and sweaty I dangled around then came down. Second time up struggled to commit above the break and hopped off reaching for the crimp on long distance runnel. Bounced off the tree again! Then to add insult to injury bumped into JB looking like he was having fun. Ffs what else could go wrong on this lovely day??! 

Time to drop the grade and go onsighting

[joel182]

A dead tree lurking near a boulder problem at Gardoms broke and hit me on the head today. Must be something in the air.

[tomtom]

Must be something in the air.

Branches?



Glad you’re both alright...

[user deactivated]

A dead tree lurking near a boulder problem at Gardoms broke and hit me on the head today. Must be something in the air.

Aye, a dead tree. If you weren’t there to hear it, would it have made a sound?

[shark]

A dead tree lurking near a boulder problem at Gardoms broke and hit me on the head today. Must be something in the air.

Calling of the lime