[moose]

So the Manhattan DA gets the tax records now but Congress (and the public) don't until after the election.  They'll have fraud charges ready to drop on November 4th.

He's having a total meltdown on Twitter.

538 views it as a legal loss but a short-term political win for Trump - as the records will be released after the election.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/were-not-going-to-see-trumps-tax-returns-anytime-s

[petejh]

It'd be rather unfair for COVID-19 to catch a nasty dose of Trump.

 

[Will Hunt]

part of me - and I recognise this is an ugly emotion - would love to see him utterly crushed in November

If having only part of you wanting to see him utterly crushed is an ugly emotion then I must be the devil cos 100% of me wants to see him completely destroyed. Total and utter humiliation by being emphatically trashed at the election and then ending up in jail is the only outcome that I'd be truly content with.

This. I find it difficult to think of anyone - other than psychopathic criminals - who I'd rather see destroyed and in jail. It's only fitting for someone so criminally corrupt and lacking empathy for the people he's supposed to be representing and serving. Actually the most fitting end would be him rendered unable to carry out an effective campaign through a debilitating dose of covid contracted via a rally. Until after November. And then fade away into old-age and infamy.

It'd be rather unfair for COVID-19 to catch a nasty dose of Trump.

Too good for him, I'm afraid. I'd like him to see him humiliated in a landslide defeat, whatever legacy he leaves behind destroyed, and for him to be imprisoned for the rest of his life.

Andy, don't beat yourself up. There are a few people in the world who are so monstrous that it's OK to hate them.

Now, Bolsonaro on the other hand, I eagerly await his prognosis.

[dunnyg]

I didn't know you considered yourself monstrous will? 

[TobyD]

part of me - and I recognise this is an ugly emotion - would love to see him utterly crushed in November

If having only part of you wanting to see him utterly crushed is an ugly emotion then I must be the devil cos 100% of me wants to see him completely destroyed. Total and utter humiliation by being emphatically trashed at the election and then ending up in jail is the only outcome that I'd be truly content with.

This. I find it difficult to think of anyone - other than psychopathic criminals - who I'd rather see destroyed and in jail. It's only fitting for someone so criminally corrupt and lacking empathy for the people he's supposed to be representing and serving. Actually the most fitting end would be him rendered unable to carry out an effective campaign through a debilitating dose of covid contracted via a rally. Until after November. And then fade away into old-age and infamy.

Given the number of deaths he's probably caused through willfully ignoring all expert advice he really should be tried for genocide

[TobyD]

Can anyone with an actual knowledge of the constitution explain to me why it's in the power of a president to commute or pardon sentenced prisoners?

[andy popp]

It's in Article II of the constitution. The president only has the power to pardon for federal crimes, not those prosecuted at the state level (which is why the investigations of the DA's in Manhattan etc are so important) but within that the power to pardon is almost absolute. There is no settled opinion on whether presidents can pardon themselves, though one imagines Trump would try should he find himself in that position. There is meant to be a process through which criminals can appeal for clemency and these are meant to be considered by a special office but I think Trump has often gone ahead and simply pardoned friends and allies (that said all presidents use their power of pardon, especially before leaving office, and the decisions often look a little dodgy).

I've no idea why he commuted Stone's sentence rather than pardoning him.

[sdm]

I heard that commuting vs pardoning could have implications regarding getting him to testify in future proceedings?

No idea if that's correct.

[Oldmanmatt]

I heard that commuting vs pardoning could have implications regarding getting him to testify in future proceedings?

No idea if that's correct.

I believe, a commutation can be reversed, a pardon cannot?

[TobyD]

It's in Article II of the constitution. The president only has the power to pardon for federal crimes, not those prosecuted at the state level (which is why the investigations of the DA's in Manhattan etc are so important) but within that the power to pardon is almost absolute. There is no settled opinion on whether presidents can pardon themselves, though one imagines Trump would try should he find himself in that position. There is meant to be a process through which criminals can appeal for clemency and these are meant to be considered by a special office but I think Trump has often gone ahead and simply pardoned friends and allies (that said all presidents use their power of pardon, especially before leaving office, and the decisions often look a little dodgy).

I've no idea why he commuted Stone's sentence rather than pardoning him.

I understand that convicted people can appeal for clemency, but why constitutionally award the president that power? It seems very dubious.

Trump commuted rather than pardoned because a pardon implies guilt in the crime, whereas the former does not, I think.

[andy popp]

I understand that convicted people can appeal for clemency, but why constitutionally award the president that power? It seems very dubious.

Trump commuted rather than pardoned because a pardon implies guilt in the crime, whereas the former does not, I think.

It's been in the constitution from the beginning and was essentially copied from the British royal power of pardon. But I agree, the power seems much too wide-ranging and unchecked.

Neither commutation nor pardon erases the conviction at all, though pardons have to formally accepted, which involves an acknowledgement of guilt. If Matt is right that commutations can be reversed then that looks like a message to Stone to maintain his loyalty to Trump, or else ... He received in a naked quid pro quo for not turning on Trump during his trial.

[TobyD]

This is one of the most terrifying examples of crass stupidity I've seen in the pandemic,  I wonder how much this sort of behaviour is influenced by Trump's rhetoric?

30-year-old dies after attending 'Covid party' in Texas

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/13/30-year-old-dies-covid-party-texas?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

[SA Chris]

No mention of underlying health conditions, wonder if it was an enormous viral load?

[Offwidth]

Responses to the commutation, an index of false claims and poll problems in Wisconsin (that he needs to win).

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/12/roger-stone-donald-trump-reaction-republicans-democrats

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/13/donald-trump-20000-false-or-misleading-claims

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/13/can-trump-win-swing-state-wisconsin-again

[Offwidth]

A terrible new record for the US:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/15/drugs-opioids-americans-overdoses

And concerns linked to Covid:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/09/coronavirus-pandemic-us-opioids-crisis

[andy popp]

In Portland, Oregon, unidentifiable federal agents in unmarked vans, ordered into the city by President Trump against the express wishes of the Mayor and Governor, are snatching people off the streets. I've always steered clear of the accusations of fascism because I think they're wrong, but this is getting uncomfortably close.

[Oldmanmatt]

In Portland, Oregon, unidentifiable federal agents in unmarked vans, ordered into the city by President Trump against the express wishes of the Mayor and Governor, are snatching people off the streets. I've always steered clear of the accusations of fascism because I think they're wrong, but this is getting uncomfortably close.

It’s not close, it’s an interference fit.

[TobyD]

In Portland, Oregon, unidentifiable federal agents in unmarked vans, ordered into the city by President Trump against the express wishes of the Mayor and Governor, are snatching people off the streets. I've always steered clear of the accusations of fascism because I think they're wrong, but this is getting uncomfortably close.

On what pretext? I'd probably subscribe to the description of Trump as gangster capitalist rather than fascist. He, like Boris Johnson incidentally, seems to hold no discernible idealogy or conviction other than a ludicrously over inflated self regard.
I genuinely think that Trump believes in little other than the importance of his ego. Most of his racism could well just be in the interest of personal advancement.
In short, I'm not sure he's thoughtful or interesting enough to be a fascist. He's probably a rather boring fat old man who's shit at golf and cheats a lot. At least Hitler, Mussolini et al were probably   interesting in a criminally insane kind of way.

[Oldmanmatt]

I think Trump is incidental.

These DHS goons would not have been his idea, this is someone lower down the food chain taking advantage of poor oversight.

These are the fascists. The real danger. Hardliners normally kept in check by the “system” who suddenly find themselves free to act and seize power.
Trump is a useful idiot.

[mrjonathanr]

You think it’s Barr then?

[Oldmanmatt]

You think it’s Barr then?

I think there’s a cabal.

Jackals, loosely affiliated, but with some common goals.

Ironically, creating a “Deep state” of unaccountable authoritarian agencies; exactly the thing Trumps’ “base” seek to root out.

[tomtom]

You think it’s Barr then?

Or Putin is pulling some of his strings....

[Oldmanmatt]

I knew things were bad, but I hadn’t grasped the potential for how much worse it could get:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/i-was-a-military-covid-planner-trust-me-texas-is-in-deep-deep-trouble?utm_source=web_push

[Offwidth]

Latest fFox car crash

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/19/donald-trump-fox-news-sunday-chris-wallace-interview

[TobyD]

Post all the Guardian links you like (please don't...  ) Trump will still be president in 2021.