Surely the real issue here is that Adge doesn't know where the Sheaf View is. Jesus fucking wept
* by - Alan James - UKC and UKH ? on - 08 Jun 2013 - www.ukclimbing.comIn reply to In reply to Dan, Jon and a few others:When the 1997 NWL RF sold out in 2008 I didn't know quite what to do since we were fully committed doing other books and I couldn't possibly re-author a new book. Wales local at the time Jack G had only just come on board at UKC but not as an RF author and he was too busy anyway. So I offered the full document, albeit in a rather dated format, to Simon Panton since I thought Ground-Up would be the logical people to do the new guide. Simon told me then that Ground-up would be producing a North Wales Limestone guide in 2009 and he said he would think about the offer of the files.In the end I didn't hear back from Simon and it appears that their proposed guide dropped off their schedule. With Jack living there though and keen to get involved we started putting together a fully definitive guide in 2010 (I can't remember when exactly). Jack did loads of work on Upper Pen Trwyn, LPT, and the Diamond.Then in November 2010 Pete Harrison announced a new definitive local guide to NWL produced by an independent publisher (himself I think) but with links to Ground-up.Announcement here - http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=433625and Grubes corroborates some of this here http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=438644#x6176646We thought about the prospect of 2 definitive guides since we could have easily produced our guidebook and, at that time, Petejh seemed perfectly happy to pitch his book against a fully definitive rival. I am not sure which book would have appeared first but I suspect ours would since the other one still isn't available and ours would have been there in 2011. Whether Petejh would have then gone on to produce his or not, I don't know but his rhetoric at the time suggested he would.So we took the decision to drop that book - http://www.rockfax.com/news/2011/01/31/change-of-plans-for-north-wales-limestone/ . This was based on pure economics, we didn't think it was worthwhile producing a second book to an area that was a low-selling area that appeared to be getting a definitive guide anyway in the near future.Then in June 2011 we announced the full North Wales Climbs guide - http://www.rockfax.com/news/2011/06/06/north-wales-climbs/and here http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=462111which we hoped to get out in 2012. This was a logcial step considering North Wales Classics had sold well but suffered from its small format, and that we already had the Ormes to add to the full book.Well things got delayed, as they do in guidebooks, so here we are in 2013 planning on getting the book out. We haven't increased our coverage of NWL in fact we have reduced it by around 80% from the template document that Jack had started work on. We are including most sport routes on the crags we cover though since that is our normal policy since these are the routes that tend to get climbed, which is around 250 odd routes on the Great Orme for example.Apart from the delay and what is documented above, nothing has changed in our plans for NWClimbs since we announced it back in 2011. We haven't been keeping quiet and we have mentioned it several times since, then we waited until we can be sure of the publication date before the final announcement. This is standard procedure which we use with every guidebook. If we forecast them too much in advance then we end up with the inevitable delayed publication dates.With regard to donations to bolt fundsWe gave money in the past to the North Wales Bolt Fund and we are happy to do so again in the future and will do after we have broken even from this new book which may take a year or so. We have also set up http://www.ukboltfund.org which has been extremely successful in many areas. I have checked yesterday and since it was set up, there have been 86 attempted donations made to the NWBF via that page. That is likely to be around £400 to £500 (I can't check the actual amounts) if everyone gave a fiver. We will push this initiative in the new book as well and continue to promote it across UKC and Rockfax sites.We have also recently added a point-of-sale donation system onto the Rockfax site which has started to pick up donations from people who buy books direct. They can choose the local bolt fund or the ACT when they buy but so far most have been choosing the ACT. Hopefully this will gather momentum as we move on and I will certainly include the NWBF in the list.Alan
* by - andyathome ? on - 20:59 ThuIn reply to andyathome:AND.... while I'm on roll; where is the breakdown of the financial model of the putative North Wales Limestone? 'All profits will go the the bolt fund?' That will be the bolt fund that is funding the development/re-bolting activities of the guidebook writer? Nothing personal in this you understand.Is that AFTER all origination/production costs are met? Or is there a certain amount going to the fund per copy sold from day 1? Will the accounts be published on UKC (seems to be the growing thing) in terms of cost of production and income generated? Who oversees the accounts?According to this thread all these things should be in the public (i.e UKC) domain.
* by - biscuit ? on - 21:04 ThuIn reply to andyathome:I think it would be reasonable to see that Pete gets his money back on publication first and then all the profits go to the bolting etc.
* by - Misha ? on - 21:28 Thu....I have some sympathy for the volunteer guide book team but at the end of the day no one is forcing them to bolt and rebolt NWL sport routes. Yes, they put in time and effort and that's great but it's their choice to go and do that. If the bolt fund runs out of money, they can just stop bolting. It's not like it's their livelihoods are at stake here. Do we really need hundreds of NWL sport routes? Perhaps the locals need that but then it's up to them to finance that. I bet the vast majority of people who go climbing in North Wales hardly ever venture out on NWL, if ever at all. This is a storm in a teacup really apart from a few locals who have a direct interest in developing loads of NWL sport routes and a few others who have jumped on the anti-Rockfax wagon.
http://northwaleslimestone.com
I would have imagined a company with the turnover suggested in it's accounts - which Jasper can explain far better than I - would be able to stretch to a fiver like the many climbers in the UK have done who don't have figures like £200000 on their annual accounts.
New routers have always paid for their own bolts, the bolt fund provides them at cost if people ask but they still have to be bought. Just wanted to point that out.
Quote from: Jaspersharpe on June 13, 2013, 05:26:39 pmQuote from: ianv on June 13, 2013, 04:21:12 pmI predict that thread is now going to descent into a grabbo/dolerite style wankathon but for accountants Doing my best. I can't believe that guy thinks you're being rude - you're putting across well-reasoned factual points in a clear manner, and which are highly relevant to some of Alan's arguments about not making any/enough profit, and which help illuminate whether what he's claiming is likely to be or not to be the truth.
Quote from: ianv on June 13, 2013, 04:21:12 pmI predict that thread is now going to descent into a grabbo/dolerite style wankathon but for accountants Doing my best.
I predict that thread is now going to descent into a grabbo/dolerite style wankathon but for accountants
One thing that will never, ever change on that forum is that there will always be someone willing to argue that black is white (and nobody gets my jokes).
One thing that will never, ever change on that forum is that there will always be someone willing to argue that black is white.
Quote from: Jaspersharpe on June 14, 2013, 09:14:29 amOne thing that will never, ever change on that forum is that there will always be someone willing to argue that black is white (and nobody gets my jokes).I got it. Didn't know you needed congratulating on it though. Well done for making a joke at Chris Craggs. It was very funny indeed.
JasperI have not seen the balance sheet so need some enlightenment.Is there goodwill and a value for the website shown on the current balance sheet? or just the cash and stock? Is there any assets on the B/S that might be attributable to the acquisition of Rockfax Ltd?
The balance sheet looks very healthy and although the paper Net Asset value of the company is £215,104 at 31/12/11 this doesn't include any value for goodwill or the value of the website.
Quote from: SteG on June 13, 2013, 08:16:02 pmhttp://northwaleslimestone.comGreat website plus it reminded me to donate to the bolt fund