[c.j.d.]

I do actually like operating in a bubble these days with regards to hard bouldering - it makes life easier, and you can concentrate on the important bits without distraction.  Now and again, I'll have a look out and about as and when it suits to see what's going on in the world, and then disappear in again.

Now, I was bouldering a few weeks back (outside of the imaginary sphere), with a certain individual who casually directed me in the direction of a certain web site.  This came part and parcel along with the knowledge that a certain person may or may not have ascended a handful of problems correctly (downgrading one), down at Porth Ysgo.  I mentioned this (in passing) to A. Nother, who located said website/Blogspot, showing the video posted on it to me yesterday.

I'm not one to gossip, and don't really get involved with all of this very often.  Also, I think that the boulderer in question probably is very strong and talented, but...  Listed below are three problems that appear on the film, all of which have been climbed incorrectly by quite a margin, and have been claimed as repeats or 1st ascents:

Dolly Rocker:  This was given 8a+ by 1st ascentionist.  The person repeating in this video starts three moves in (as opposed to on the obvious jug under the roof), with the downgrade to 8a.  This is actually about 7b+ from this position.  This puts down the efforts of the 1st ascentionist, and also robs the thunder of a would be 2nd ascentionist - bad karma.

pr0n Makes me Horny:  Originally given 8a by Captain Muscles, and thought to be 8a by most.  The climber pulls on a move into the problem, and down grades to 7c+.  Again, probably 7c from here.  A cracking problem not be fucked with - its all about the power, kids.

Tide of Dreams:  Climber pulls on from two moves in, and then climbs a 7b/+ as opposed to the true line, which to all others who attempted this line, starts a lot lower down, and involves the moves which does in fact cause this to become a tricky 7c+ line.  Does somebody else deserve the 1st ascent tick - probably (any takers?).

There are no names mentioned here at all, as my intention is not to discredit an individual (!), but for gods sake, climb things properly and not for the downgrading or first ascent glory.  Tide of Dreams has had a couple of ascents now I think - so, who got there first?

I've only written this as I really was stunned at the blatant lack of true ascending going on in such a short film - I wonder how much this happens for a quick tick (across the board).  I once spent about £700 quid and took on a 1300 mile drive to send Electric Ant (8b) over in Chironico.  I got to the top, and retuned home only to discover that I should have started a move lower down. 

Gutted as I was, it came off the list and now I'll have to go back - this can happen, and you have to be okay with it when it does.  Come on guys - lets do it properly or not at all. 

Anyhow, back to the bubble.

[Pantontino]

 

[cofe]

there really is a smilie for everything!

[c.j.d.]

  Me to!

[Jaspersharpe]

Shouldn't this also have a    a  and possibly a  ?

 

[Pantontino]

Well, if no-one replies it could end up with:

But somehow I think we're more likely to see a lot of:       

Possibly followed by: 

[dave]

as long as its not 

[Paul B]

There are no names mentioned here at all, as my intention is not to discredit an individual (!), but for gods sake, climb things properly and not for the downgrading or first ascent glory.  Tide of Dreams has had a couple of ascents now I think - so, who got there first?

Wouldn't it have been a bit easier to comment on the video/blog rather than here?

[slackline]

Wouldn't it have been a bit easier to comment on the video/blog rather than here?

  but perhaps that was done first/too/in addition? 

[dave]

Not that I can see:

http://redclimbing.blogspot.com/2011/01/magic-of-porth-ysgo-dry-bouldering-its.html

(P.S. I'm slightly confused by the logic of playing the "i'm not going to name names" card, then in the same sentence making it entirely obvious to everyone who you're talking about anyway).

[Probes]

 

[tc]

http://redclimbing.blogspot.com/2011/01/magic-of-porth-ysgo-dry-bouldering-its.html

If I see one more video featuring "The Drive to the Crag" I am going to drive into Keswick and kill something. "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"
Man, it's been a hard week in the North Lakes...

[Paul B]

Here perhaps?

[slackline]

I hadn't worked out, thanks dave.

Question(s)?

How well documented are the sequences to the problems in question?  I know NWB covers Porth Ysgo, but haven't looked at it in a while, and have no idea whether these problems precede its publication or are afterwards. 

If afterwards where are the starting holds/positions/sequences documented for potential repeat ascentionists to get things right?  Could it simply be that not enough information was at this persons disposal so they climbed what they thought was the obvious line?

 

[petejh]

If I see one more video featuring "The Drive to the Crag" I am going to drive into Keswick and kill something. "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"
Man, it's been a hard week in the North Lakes...

Make sure you film 'the drive in to kill something in Keswick'...

[SA Chris]

I am going to drive into Keswick and kill something. "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"

Going Postal. Or Going Taxi Driver as it's known round there.

[Probes]

Ah man im getting confused with what/me/how/when im saying stuff, need to change my avatar.

[slackline]

If I see one more video featuring "The Drive to the Crag" I am going to drive into Keswick and kill something. "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"
Man, it's been a hard week in the North Lakes...

Make sure you have this blaring when you do...



...or the remix...

[andy_e]

Or this:



Or just have a DVD player playing "Network" in the background.

[ducko]

its easily done getting a hold or two wrong on a route but i think downgrading things when your clearly not 100% sure on the correct route isnt on, personally id never downgrade anything anyway unless it was a real piss take

[Pantontino]

How well documented are the sequences to the problems in question?  I know NWB covers Porth Ysgo, but haven't looked at it in a while, and have no idea whether these problems precede its publication or are afterwards. 

If afterwards where are the starting holds/positions/sequences documented for potential repeat ascentionists to get things right?  Could it simply be that not enough information was at this persons disposal so they climbed what they thought was the obvious line?

 

A few facts:

Dolly Rocker was actually given a split 8A/+ grade by Nodder:

http://www.northwalesbouldering.com/newsitem.asp?nsid=440

Both PMMH and ToD are in the 2004 NWB guide which merely says: from a sit down start at the base of the arête. It does state that both problems share the same start though. Also, there is a pic of Ben Moon on ToD (prior to it being climbed if memory serves me right?) in the guide (page 225) and the low starting holds are clearly chalked.

I can’t remember what Higg originally said for PMMH (it was 10 years ago, and presumably this is where CJD accuses me of down grading someone else's problem even though I've never done it.), but I'm pretty sure that Mick Adams (who did the first ascent) said 7C+/8A for ToD.

 

And some opinion/questions:

Personally I think leg crouch starts as seen in the film don't qualify as pure sitters. It's hard to see on PMMH, but on ToD that is definitely not a conventional sds - the same is true for DR. On a sds the last thing to leave the ground should be your arse. That said some problems are better and more logical as semi crouching.

So, did Mick do the FA of ToD or not? I guess we don't know how he did it originally - maybe he did the shorter version for the camera because it was too hot and he wanted to conserve skin? Mick - what's the score?

In the next guide I will be putting in specified starting holds on certain problems. These three problems look like good candidates where a degree of interpretation of sds is possible.

Funnily enough I was at the crag on the day that Mick did this film. I didn't actually see him climb as his team were moving on when we arrived.

[Pantontino]

There are no names mentioned here at all, as my intention is not to discredit an individual (!),

And by the way I agree with Dave, why not just use Mick's name. It's bloody obvious what you are talking about.

[chummer]

From Nodders blog:

"Also Dolly Rocker is probably more 8a than +, just make sure you start right, left hand in the slot right hand on the arete"

[chummer]

Sorry I meant to say, "from someone's blog who shall remain nameless"

[fatneck]

Mick - what's the score?

Mick's currently in Swizzy and I don't really want to get embroiled in did he/didn't he arguments on his behalf. Suffice it to say that I know Mick (as do many of you) and he's not the sort of bloke to go round deliberately down grading stuff for the sake of it. I think Si may have a valid point about saving skin and the fact that Mick had done at least two of these problems prior to the visit in question. Also, Mick drove to Ysgo for the day from Rotherham based on the positive report I'd given having been there the day before and absolutely nowhere else was climbable! And he's going pretty well at the moment!

Does this paragraph help the situation? Probably not, but as Mick's an honorary scouser and a thoroughly nice chap, I feel obliged to say something in his favour!