[remus]

Cheers.

[tc]

Si O's been seen doing relatively awkward stuff.

Really? Where?

[Ike]

So people think Simpson is full of shit? I was unaware of this. Well I for one would like to believe he has been honest about all his accomplishments.
I friend of mine who died a few years ago soloing in Ireland had a reputation for being full of shit too. People said he had not done all sorts of things he had claimed to, but I had seen the guy pull off some nasty hard things (like free solo F8a) in the most controlled style, so I just took his word for everything he'd claimed to have done. After all, I knew he was capable of it.
I'll take the same road with Simpson until someone can prove he's lying about his ascents.

[roddersm]

Not news in my opinion. Why should somebody getting dropped by their sponsors get any news coverage?

About time as there has been much discussion regarding the validity of many of Rich Simpsons claims - his ascent of Action Direct, Liquid Ambar, the list is long and impressive. There's no proof of any of these ascents (eg: no belayers, photos, videos, eye-witnesses) and so his sponsors have got a little concerned and dropped him, and quite rightly. Claims for sub 4 minute miles, 2h hour 30 minute marathons have only added fuel to the fire.

I couldn't care less if he is genuine or a bullshitter. What pisses me off is that many of the ascents he claims were many other climbers goals, and this can be very demotivating. An example - the climbers who were trying A Muerte prior to Rich's 'first ascent' probably never tried the route again once the prize of the first ascent had be claimed. What a shame if Rich's claim was false to have stolen that motivation from other climbers. If he has done the routes, good for him, but claiming to be a world class climber without any proof is eventually going to come back and bite you in the arse.

Not news, because I think Rich may have already had far more than his fair share of media coverage.

Percy I think you're being very harsh here. For me there's as much evidence for Simpson doing what he's claimed as many other high profile climbers. Maybe he is full of shit but I've seen or heard no evidence to suggest he is. The few videos floating around about him show how strong and good he is and tellingly none of the top climbers he's trained or climbed with have questioned his claims, at least not publically.

The lack of web evidence to support his running and boxing claims is odd but that doesn't mean they aren't true. I can't believe anyone would make up doing a 2.30 marathon, sub 4 minute mile and being a successful boxer and expect not to be found out.

Did he actually get dropped by his sponsors or is this just speculation?

 

[chris05]

Did he not have a belayer for AD? Surely it wasn't backroped (if climbed at all)?

[granticus]

I don't really know anything about anything.... However, this all seems (to me) to be completely out of keeping with the personality and character of the young(er) Master Simpson that I came across starting out training at Warwick uni wall.  Perhaps I'm a shit judge of character but my perception of Rich was someone with a sensibly sized ego that would be honest about his achievements.  He certainly came/comes across as being a very pleasant human being, not that counts for anything.  I guess nowadays, if folk don't document their high end achievements people are gonna start questioning them.  What is being suggested just doesn't feel right to me.

[KH]

I don't know RS and I have never met him, but the videos of him online, obsession and pinky perky, are inspirational and whilst there are no full ascents of AD, Hubble and LA, these videos IMO only go to show that he has more than enough ability to do what has been reported.

[Percy B]

Harsh? Maybe.
Like I say, I don't know (and don't really care) if Rich has really done many of the things he has claimed. It makes no odds to me. However, having spent a little time with one of his sponsors  recently and heard their doubts, I have to say that there is a fairly damning lack of evidence for several of his ascents. If your sponsor asks you for proof that the stuff on your climbing CV is true and you can't come up with the goods, then I expect you'll either get dropped (or resign before they drop you).

Yes, there is much video evidence that Rich could do some awesome stuff in the School, but little un-edited evidence of him doing anything exceptional on rock. (Obviously, feel free to humiliate me by posting all your Simpson hard grit videos on this forum). There is much evidence that climbing 8b on a board doesn't equate to being able to top-rope a HVS without having a disco leg . Training is training, climbing is climbing....etc, etc... The ability to do 15 one-armers just means that you spend a lot of free time wanking (see the paper, Masturbation and it's ammelioratory affect in the Rock Athlete, by Professor S O'Connor)

Wish I hadn't bothered posting now, as I can't be bothered to argue the toss. I truly hope Rich is the real deal and will prove everbody wrong. It is unfortunate that proof is required if you claim the stuff he has claimed has done, as it is ground-breaking stuff and effects other climbers significantly, but that's the nature of being at the top of your sport. Put up or shut up.

[mrjonathanr]

Speaking just for myself, I have no reason to doubt these reputed ascents of his - so I don't.

That's not why I'm posting though: I find assertions of the 'Well he looks pretty strong on the dog so he MUST have redpointed it' variety a tad surprising. Surely you know redpointing is a bit trickier than dogging?

[roddersm]

Fair enough Percy but it just seems, from what is known publically, that Richard Simpson is being unfairly singled out. I'm sure there are loads of examples of climbers who've claimed things with little or no evidence. Unfortunately its too easy for people to bullshit about climbing achievments on the internet these days but I think people should be given the beneifit of the doubt unless there is evidence that they are lying.

It's fair enough that sponsors ask for evidence but surely they should make some sort of statement if they remove an athlete (or they resign) to stop this sort of speculation which can damage someones reputation.


 
 

[shark]

Why is it unfair to single Simpson out compared to O'Connor and Medwards ? How much benefit of the doubt is enough? In any case Simpson was perfectly happy to single Heason out and demand evidence from him publicly on the web lest we forget.

Its a shitty business for sure and we all want to see the best in people. But it is only the fact that he is such a wad indoors that his unverified ascents went largely unquestioned. It was only as anomalies arose that people started doubting and as the doubting continued the anomalies kept arising. How many unsubstantiated gobsmacking achievements does it take before anyone publicly cries bullshit?. In this case quite a few: AD, A Muerte, CT, The Zone (WTF?), 4 minute miles, astonishing marathon time, 8 boxing wins and roped solo of the Hasse. When does it stop?. Where is the evidence from someone who demanded it so publicly of Heason?. If it is all bullshit, then there are friends who have stood up for him whose loyalty has been betrayed and sponsors he has stolen from. Its divisive too - putting climbers in the pro and anti camp potentially setting friends against each other. Trust makes the world go round and being duped and made of fool of is shit but it is better that the truth is outed. Check out Bernie Madoff – he personally conned hundreds out millions who wanted to believe despite the consistency of his returns being statistically miraculous.

We want to believe. I do. But nobody is rushing forward with actual eye witness testimony or videoed ascents are they?. If its forthcoming it will be brilliant. I was made up to read that a Brit had at last done Action Directe and then did the FA of an open project on Campi Puigi. The balance of probabilities on the lack of evidence so far is that it was made up.   

[Doylo]

Performing sections of AD for the camera is not that difficult - apparently there is no move harder than Font 7b/+ on the whole route. Redpointing AD though is a totally different animal.

I'd like to see a Font 7b climber do the first jump on Action off the monos (its miles) or the last dyno come to think of it. In the footage he does it from 4 hard moves in to the end.

Put another way, even I could theoretically make a film of me linking bits of AD, but I would struggle to redpoint 8a these days.

This i would like to see

[KH]

Yes, there is much video evidence that Rich could do some awesome stuff in the School, but little un-edited evidence of him doing anything exceptional on rock. (Obviously, feel free to humiliate me by posting all your Simpson hard grit videos on this forum). There is much evidence that climbing 8b on a board doesn't equate to being able to top-rope a HVS without having a disco leg . Training is training, climbing is climbing....etc, etc... The ability to do 15 one-armers just means that you spend a lot of free time wanking (see the paper, Masturbation and it's ammelioratory affect in the Rock Athlete, by Professor S O'Connor)

You're right, I've seen many a strong youth freeze whilst on a rope.  In fact, we have a youngster in South Wales who equalled RS's feat of mono 1-4-7's but can't make easy moves whilst leading a sport route.  But this doesn't seem the case having watched RS confidently climbing past bolts on AD and cruising Nightmare on the Obsession vid.  He also moves very well on rock and whilst multiple one armers doesn't always equate to being a good climber, continuous one armers does equate to having a crazy level of power endurance, vital for routes like AD.

For me, these videos have proved that he moves well on rock, is confident on the lead, is more than strong enough to do most hard climbing moves and has great power endurance levels.  I may be naiive, but I have enough proof to take his word on having climbed these routes.

Also, weren't Bock and Koyomada around at the time he repeated AD.  Bock is no stranger to calling a Brit a bullshitter, but I haven't seen anything on line where he suggests that RS hadn't climbed it.

[Doylo]

Also, weren't Bock and Koyomada around at the time he repeated AD.  Bock is no stranger to calling a Brit a bullshitter, but I haven't seen anything on line where he suggests that RS hadn't climbed it.

Koyomoadas entourage were at the crag, Dai was in the car park.

[KH]

Chris,   Were you with Rich when he climbed AD?

[Doylo]

No i wasn't.

[dave]

... but I think people should be given the beneifit of the doubt unless there is evidence that they are lying. 

What kind of evidence would that be? How do you suggest people prove that something didn't happen?

As a little excersise, i haven't done caviar. Now can you prove it?

[clm]

the results of pretty much every athletics meet are published in athletics weekly. If they bothered to publish my pissy efforts when my skinny 14 year old legs used to scurry round a track  then im sure good times like that would be in. Proper timekeepers and everything to be in there.
...and if it wasnt in a race it doesnt count.

[roddersm]

... but I think people should be given the beneifit of the doubt unless there is evidence that they are lying. 

What kind of evidence would that be? How do you suggest people prove that something didn't happen?

As a little excersise, i haven't done caviar. Now can you prove it?

Fair question. From my point of view Simpson has proved himself to be capable of doing the things he's said so there's no logical reason to doubt him that I can see. This can be seen in the videos floating around about him.  The Si Connor thing seems different because no one had seen the guy climb. Simpson was based in Sheffield for a while, surely there are loads of people who've seen him climb something?   

If people started coming out and saying they have seen him struggle on routes or boulders way easier than he's claimed to have done then I'd see this as evidence that MIGHT suggest he is lying. I haven't seen anything yet to suggest he's a liar other than a lack of evidence to support his claims, however many climbers are credited with doing things with little or no evidence.

If someone shows themselves to be capable of doing something and then claim do have done it then they should at least be given the benefit of the doubt unless theres some evidence otherwise e.g. he was spotted in tescos in birmingham  the morning he was supposed to have done AD or a muerte. Otherwise does this mean no acsents can be valid without video evidence? 

CLM: Agree on the Athletics results thing, it is very odd that he doesn't show up on any race results. He did state his boxing club somewhere though, surely it would be very easy to check out if he was lying about his boxing achievements?   

[fiveknuckle21]

 For what it's worth I think his ability to climb 8B in the school is undoubtebly transferrable to routes like AD which is also very steep. If the moves are 7B/+ I'm sure he found it a walk in the park.

I think Obsession, above anything else, shows how RS was motivated and the way in which he speaks throughout firmly represents how personal a goal it was. His choice to go out and redpoint the old school 8c's rather than the new school 9a's shows that he had his own direction away from the bright lights of 9a and beyond. It's also important to remember that not everyone has an in-situ camera team like Sharma/Ondra.

 I don't know about you but I find it a real shame that people are so quick to defame other climbers on the basis of 'what they've heard from people in the know (or their mates)'. I mean come on. This isn't Scott or Si'O. I really think RS is a decent role model for younger climbers and maybe for their sakes the seeds of doubt needn't be planted because there's enough evidence to show that he was at least capable of his achievements.   

Whether or not he's done the 4 minute mile and all that, I dunno, who cares, this is a climbing forum.

[Paul B]

Yes, there is much video evidence that Rich could do some awesome stuff in the School, but little un-edited evidence of him doing anything exceptional on rock.

The thing is, the one place where I found board strength translating best was the Frankenjura. You cite little un-edited video evidence but watch Obsession again and see how easily he walks up Nightmare. From what Doylo said, that day it was boiling. You don't climb on Eldorado in full sun especially on a move where you jump into that pinch and swing around. Its hard enough as it is.

Now I'm expecting a backlash here saying "Well thats only F8b and we're talking 9a" etc. but it clearly shows someone on rock, climbing well below their ability, on an 8b, in the Frankenjura. If you take a look at this 'jura ticklist it reads like a role call of routes that suit his apparent strengths (Intercooler, armstrong etc. one of which basically involves one arming a mono). Add to that you've got a video of him demonstrating large links on AD, its not cut together from one move segments.

Seriously go and pull onto or look at AD and come back saying you could make that video (its the funniest thing I've read in a while). You simply wouldn't be able to. To me it highlights a lack of direct knowledge of the routes in question.

But then again maybe I've been duped, or I'm just a Schoolroom/Simposn fanboi...

[nik at work]

I don't Richard Simpson at all but on the basis of the film I'm left in no doubt that he could have done AD, and I have no reason to think he didn't. Equally, extrapolating from this point, I have no reason to dooubt his other sport/bouldering exploits.
The Zone is a bit weird for a few reasons. I'm sure I remember it was only obliquely refered to and the reason behind no "formal claiming" of the ascent was due to lack of witnesses. Which doesn't exactly sit squarely with the apparent lack of witnesses for other ascents which he (or his sponsors) has happily publicised. But I might not be remembering things clearly so could be confused. Anyway I'm sure he has the ability to do The Zone. Onsight? Quite possibly, I can't comment on his trad pedigree as I don't know it but on balance I'd say I thiknk he's done it.
The running and boxing stuff seems to have caught him out. Either there's something else going on or he's apparently got a bit silly. But I don't know enough about these activities and their recording to comment.
The mountaineering stuff is also a sphere of very limited knowledge for me. I'd tend to believe but as I'm already considered the hopelessly naive sap of the forum it probably counts for little.

[Doylo]

Maybe every single one one of the 11-14 moves on action  (depending on how you do it) are font 7b. probably still wouldn't be 9a though would it, its not that long. Hopefully Percy will confirm when he gets on the sections. I might start a whip round to pay for his trip, can i film?

[Stubbs]

Chris, did you have to go home before Rich did Action Direct, or were you just having a lie in and he slipped out and sent?

[Doylo]

Your spot on i was in bed as he was out the house at 7. I can't say i've seen him do something hard cos i haven't but i didn't climb with him that much when he was fully going for it. On what i saw he could do the route without question, i know this doesn't mean he did it but i struggle with the concept that someone would train in a tiny garage twice a day, six days a week for two years to then go and lie about it.  Obviously its possible but i don't buy it.  In terms of power he was was of the strongest people i've seen (including Ty, Malc, Micky). He didn't have the greatest crimp strength in the world but in terms of power and the specialist pocket stuff he was world class. He wasn't the most talented climber i've seen either but he moved efficiently and knew his body and how to postion it.  When he first tried Unplugged, another lesser known Frankenjura 9a Keith was belaying and after 5 minutes on it they were both convinced that they were on the 8a+ at the crag.  Marcus Bock had to confirm it was the right route, it took him 3 days i think (this is a route that dave graham failed on and Ondra even had a tussle with, check his scorecard).  Aparently it was like two school 8as in a row (so no surprise he pissed it). I don't know much about the athletics apart from the fact that the New York marathon was oversubscribed and that Ivan Greene (new york socialite) got him someone else's place, hence not showing up on results. I did the same thing at the Great North Run when i was 16. People are doubting that he even boxed , Alex Messenger has pictures of him fighting. Simpson is now at Cambridge University (which is probably why he's too busy to even contemplate this shite), he got straight A's in his A levels which he taught himself after leaving school with very little qualifications This is a pretty motivated guy we're talking about here.  I know in this day and age that people expect hard proof and it is naive to expect everyone to belive you on face value but i've met liars before and i don't believe he is one of them.