[tomtom]

Sounds like a lot of negotiation.. glad you got a result...

Though in my 2-3 years of Ifern ownership, I've only once gone over 500mb a month - and that as streaming a couple of footy matches... its a bit of a pain as it means you have to think about the data useage instead of just not caring, but in reality its made no difference to my useage.

[Jim]

nice one Paul, good to see you've got a result.
i'm still on unlimited and sim only so can cancel and pull out at any point. look at me

[dave]

Nice one paul, fuckin the system.

[slackline]

  will be drafting letters and making phone-calls soon myself.

As Jasper says the Ofcom document is simple black and white, they really don't have a leg to stand on.

[joel]

Called T-Mobile this morning regarding this (after getting worried that my new phone was going to end up being a bit rubbish...) and the person seemed to think that the 500mb allowance only applied to 3G mobile data usage that came under the "flexible booster" deal.

So it seems that if you have a contract with T-Mobile where 3G mobile data usage is included as standard (i.e. not paid for by a booster package), the data usage will be reduced to 1.5GB from 3GB, starting from the next billing month.

The person had no idea if this was a recent change because of negative reaction to the recent reduction. When I took out my new contract and got a new phone over xmas I was totally confused as to the different boosters/price plans etc., but it looks like the 500mb limit won't apply to everyone?? In short it's worth a call to see exactly what your individual situation is.

[slackline]

Go and read the links further back in this thread, it explains the clauses of the T-Mobile contract that they are breaking and the Ofcom regulations that are being broken. primarily section 9.3 of the document I linked and quoted (plus Ofcom define "reasonable notice" as being 30-days, this was announced on Monday the 10th 2011 which is 21 days notice to the 1st February 2011, I've not even received notification yet, so they're clearly in breach of that too).

[joel]

Go and read the links further back in this thread, it explains the clauses of the T-Mobile contract that they are breaking and the Ofcom regulations that are being broken. primarily section 9.3 of the document I linked and quoted (plus Ofcom define "reasonable notice" as being 30-days, this was announced on Monday the 10th 2011 which is 21 days notice to the 1st February 2011, I've not even received notification yet, so they're clearly in breach of that too).

I agree that they're breaking the terms of the contract, obviously not good at all for lots of people.

However it may not be the end of the world as for me (so far) 1.5GB would be OK.

[slackline]

Go and read the links further back in this thread, it explains the clauses of the T-Mobile contract that they are breaking and the Ofcom regulations that are being broken. primarily section 9.3 of the document I linked and quoted (plus Ofcom define "reasonable notice" as being 30-days, this was announced on Monday the 10th 2011 which is 21 days notice to the 1st February 2011, I've not even received notification yet, so they're clearly in breach of that too).

I agree that they're breaking the terms of the contract, obviously not good at all for lots of people.

However it may not be the end of the world as for me (so far) 1.5GB would be OK.

T'is the principle, they're breaking the terms and conditions, if you broke the terms and conditions by for example not paying your bill, you'd be subject to court proceedings so that they can recover your cost etc. etc.

Personally it fucks me off that companies don't hold their end of T&C's, its a two way street, an agreement between me and whatever company, that means they have to adhere to the T&C just as much as I do.  I signed up for a 3Gb contract so that I would never have to worry about data usage, regardless of whether I ever come anywhere near exceeding the proposed 500Mb.

[joel]

 

It's pretty crazy to sell such a capable phone and then prohibit people from using it properly. Will be interesting to see what the other companies plan to do?

[Paul B]

It's pretty crazy to sell such a capable phone and then prohibit people from using it properly. Will be interesting to see what the other companies plan to do?

I'd be very wary about what you've been told as I think its incorrect. Their press release clearly states that its all users. I've heard the same in store who first tried to tell me it didn't effect Android users however when they checked they found out they were wrong. I also was told directly by the managers on the helpline. Its clear the call center staff don't have a clue what they're talking about as I was told yesterday that I was required to cancel in store, I quoted the contract which says otherwise and was told "I don't need to know the contract". They're also denying that you have a right to cancel in this way which an initial glance by WHICH?'s legal team seems to be incorrect. Personally I hope they get shafted by OFCOM for their behaviour and telling people lies (they also keep saying they're the only people not to charge if you go over which again I think is incorrect).

I've seen some people mentioning on twitter that their business accounts aren't affected, again I believe thats dependant on you regularly exceeding 500mb and your account manager moving you over some months ago. I wouldn't be assuming anything.

Nice one paul, fuckin the system.

OFCOM are currently looking into it after a 'few' complaints.

[joel]

Cheers Paul, i'll keep an eye on it

[slackline]

It's pretty crazy to sell such a capable phone and then prohibit people from using it properly.

You can still use the phone "properly", the issue is that people were sold one thing, and T-Mobile are changing the T&C without reasonable notice (OfCom states 30 days, they released announcment on 10th January 2010 of the change due to take place on the 1st February == 21 days, plus not everyone has actually received a notice yet, I haven't).  It also constitutes a "material detriment" to many users (as to have the same Fair Usage Policy it will require an outlay of an additional £15/month) and  as such T-Mobile are obliged under the Ofcom document linked above to offer customers the opportunity to cancel their contracts (this is even in their T&C), but they are not doing this.

Will be interesting to see what the other companies plan to do?

Other companies (bar 3) already place restrictive caps on new contracts.  O₂ introduced this some time last year, but only applied it to new or changed plans, if you stayed with what you had then they didn't reduce your allowance, which is what T-Mobile should really be doing in this instance.

[Paul B]

what really boils my piss is the way in which they're refusing to honour both the clause in their contract that allows termination in such circumstances or the Ofcom license and are telling people they're not eligibile for free termination (directly contrary to their license).

Guardian Piece or actually on the "We all miss sloper" bandwagon: "Gruniad " piece

[Jim]

just looking at the new tarrifs on o2's website and I'm glad I've got the package I'm on and won't be changing it in a hurry despite probably not even using 500mb a month of data I wouldn't want to be capped.
Also if you got your phone over the phone or on the web there is also the distance selling regulations which come into force which is more amo to use against them
http://www.oft.gov.uk/about-the-oft/legal-powers/legal/distance-selling-regulations/

[slackline]

what really boils my piss is the way in which they're refusing to honour both the clause in their contract that allows termination in such circumstances or the Ofcom license and are telling people they're not eligibile for free termination (directly contrary to their license).

Exactly!

[slackline]

One of the people on Twitter who's been pushing cancellation of their contract has just ...

#TMobFail Data caps now only for new and upgrading #TMobile customers! Excellent news!

 

[butters]

Confirmation on the Reg

[Paul B]

yet they've still made subtle wording changes to their FUP which allows them to define 'internet' instead of data.
 

although hopefully they won't try and apply this across the board.

Info if you have cancelled:
http://www.littlefluffytoys.com/?p=309

[slackline]

If they try to define internet then the only right and sane thing to do is refer them to...



Its also only until contracts are renewed, so I'll certainly be shopping around for the best internet bundle when the time comes.

Also if its all about bandwidth being used up it doesn't really make sense to now impose tighter limits when more bandwidth has just been made available 

[fatdoc]

well at worst I'm stuck with them, at best I'll get two free smartphones...

are you sure 500Mb is constrictive?

i soo dont agree with the way this has been done... but I have never got near on my gayphone...

[slackline]

are you sure 500Mb is constrictive?

i soo dont agree with the way this has been done... but I have never got near on my gayphone...

Try using Spotify/Last.fm/Moozone/any mp3 streaming for an hour or so a day and see what your usage shoots up to.

[dave]

Word, interestingly enough I've just been on the dog and bone to t-mobile cos my contract is coming up to renewal. On my new contract/plan/phone I specifically asked about the internet data limit (its an android phone) and was told straight away that its 3GB. Now as it happens 500mb will probably be ample for me anyway, but it seems that either they've backpeddaled because of irate Bennetts with boiling piss (good) or are still misselling shit to new customers (bad, but can get it overturned latere ALA Paul), or they're treating existing t-mobile customers taking new contracts as being exempt from the data limit cut.

[fatdoc]

my naive interpretation for all this was unlimited users swapping SIMs to use slow 3G SIMS for continuous torrents / feeds where " 98% of the unlimited *smart phone bandwidth* was being used by 3% of the users"... I bought that... not fair to us all. not reasonable....IMO


now... if reasonable use - as above IMO - exceeds this new cap then OK... it's not right.

[Paul B]

how could that be given that unlimited meant a FUP of 3gb max?

A torrenting user would hit that extremely quickly. I don't really see what difference it makes either, data is the same regardless of what it actually constitutes to the end user i.e. videos, music,torrented  files etc.

Also they removed Ifern users the ability to tether which was included in their priceplan. That was hardly fair. Some people may have signed those agreements so that they could use those services instead of a home broadband connection.

[Jaspersharpe]

my naive interpretation for all this

Word. It's called profiteering. Don't believe the hype.