[Fiend]

Yes but what smiley was it? Conspiratorially friendly, or secretly ironic?

[Three Nine]

Continued:

Brian is the 8c+ and yeah he did that I belayed him! He did multiple 8b onsights in rodellar last year with ease... And I watched him do Fatman in font! He has a video of him doing Brian and we didn't film the go he did it cause only me and him were at the cove x

Yes unfortunately the edited video doesnt count
Rich Simpson had an edited video of Action Direct - but was still found out to be a liar


Okay fair yeah cause you can put the parts together

This isn't questioning your honesty - but did anybody else see him do Fatman in font?

But honestly please take my word for it that I belayed him for weeks on that route and I watched him work it everyday. It means so much to him that route and he would never lie about the second ascent, simply out of respect for ken and for his own sense of achievement.

Yeah tom and Reece and everyone were there

Thanks Charlotte that's all very helpful and will go a long way towards vindicating him!

End of convo.

I'm not sure I see any reason to doubt this.

[SA Chris]

If your ex is backing you up it must be legit.

Some of mine wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire.

[kelvin]

It's a shame it came to interrogation.

I guess even if he hasn't done Fatman, it could be down to just getting the line wrong. That's easy enough to understand. I try to get in the wrong house all the time when I'm pissed and I actually know where I live.

[Three Nine]

Its a hell of a lot better evidence than John Gaskins ever managed to produce AFAIK?

[Johnny Brown]

On the other hand it's very similar to some of Simpson's 'evidence'. Does no one know him well enough to at least try and find out what he did on Fatman?

[Will Hunt]

If your ex is backing you up it must be legit.

Some of mine wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire.

Yeah but would any of them piss on you if you weren't on fire?

[andyd]

If your ex is backing you up it must be legit.

Some of mine wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire.

Yeah but would any of them piss on you if you weren't on fire?

Why? Are you after their digits? You deviant!

[finbarrr]

Continued:

 he would never lie about the second ascent

 

 
that bit of sentence just jumped out at me, don't have anything meaningful to add to this conversation.

[rodma]

It's a shame it came to interrogation.

I guess even if he hasn't done Fatman, it could be down to just getting the line wrong. That's easy enough to understand. I try to get in the wrong house all the time when I'm pissed and I actually know where I live.

Well he has footage of doing most of it (unless someone hacked his 8a account) , so easy enough to put to bed.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

It's a shame it came to interrogation.

Quite. It's crap. And what's the doubt about really? I suppose there are only so many accolades going around.

Regarding Simpson, was anything actually proven?

"I once saw Malc do Malc's One Armer with Ben and Jerry hanging from his feet. The photos were rubbish tho."

Anyone else there?

[Three Nine]

With Simpson it was established beyond reasonable doubt that he was a pathological liar. Add to this his failure to provide evidence for significant stuff, and you can write off any claim he ever made.

But let's not make this a Simpson thread!

[Three Nine]

Indeed, perhaps this thread could be split and we could have an Ellis Barker-Bulshit(?) thread?

[Three Nine]

It's a shame it came to interrogation.

I guess even if he hasn't done Fatman, it could be down to just getting the line wrong. That's easy enough to understand. I try to get in the wrong house all the time when I'm pissed and I actually know where I live.

Well he has footage of doing most of it (unless someone hacked his 8a account) , so easy enough to put to bed.

Just like Simpson had footage of Liquid Ambar and Careless Torque?

[Greg C]

Its a hell of a lot better evidence than John Gaskins ever managed to produce AFAIK?

I'm not getting involved in the EBB debate but this statement isn't really accurate. Gaskins has plenty of witnesses who saw him do various feats and actual ascents, perhaps not enough for everyone's liking and I'd certainly say his 'back-up' regarding important ascents such as Shadow Play is weak. But I don't think you can say EBB has more evidence based on this one eye witness 'statement'. I'm pretty sure John's wife would back him up on a lot of ascents.

[Three Nine]

Its a hell of a lot better evidence than John Gaskins ever managed to produce AFAIK?

I'm not getting involved in the EBB debate but this statement isn't really accurate. Gaskins has plenty of witnesses who saw him do various feats and actual ascents, perhaps not enough for everyone's liking and I'd certainly say his 'back-up' regarding important ascents such as Shadow Play is weak. But I don't think you can say EBB has more evidence based on this one eye witness 'statement'. I'm pretty sure John's wife would back him up on a lot of ascents.

Fair enough, i was being flippant I guess.

[shark]

Indeed, perhaps this thread could be split and we could have an Ellis Barker-Bulshit(?) thread?

I'd like to do something but that would be tantamount to bullying so not prepared to split it but it would be good if this classic thread and news source got back on topic. The facts or otherwise will come out when the lad is back from holiday

[tc]

Gaskin's "back up" for two of his most difficult "ascents" (Shadowplay and A Moment of Clarity) is not weak. It's non existent. But I digress. 

[a dense loner]

You used the word "two" tc

[SA Chris]

If your ex is backing you up it must be legit.

Some of mine wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire.

Yeah but would any of them piss on you if you weren't on fire?

Only if I begged. And grovelled.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

My reference to Rich Simpson was not inappropriate. I think we need to be wary of developing a culture of damning/doubting which is far, far removed from healthy scepticism.

It seems OK (to me) to express some personal doubts about ascents/claims, but to go beyond that, to make what you believe is a claim to knowledge of the truth, is probably not a lot more than projection.

Regarding the involvement of sponsors. They have their own commercial interests to protect. How much attention do they give to group think and speculation? Where significant doubts have been raised, perhaps they could ask for some material to help verify claims. Would I be willing to do that? I'm not so sure.

In the realm of significant ascents/claims, there will always be doubts expressed, but do we really want this to become a culture of fear and paranoia, who's in and who's out?

[Bonjoy]

In the realm of significant ascents/claims, there will always be doubts expressed, but do we really want this to become a culture of fear and paranoia, who's in and who's out?

Twas ever thus, but the point is that these days it's totally unnecessary.
A defacto expectation that some  video evidence is provided de-toxifies the whole issue because it originates from everyone and applies to everyone from the outset rather than being a post facto request which inevitably requires one person to point the finger at another. Rumour and gossip and the negative culture they engender arise from a lack of facts not from a surfeit.

[a dense loner]

Couldn't have put it better myself Ru

[DAVETHOMAS90]

It all feels rather more like the imposition of a regime to me, acceptable if you readily buy into the premise.

My own thoughts and feelings are reflected well in Will Hunt's comments in the "Filming significant ascents" thread.

[Bonjoy]

Regime implies a few or an individual imposing their will on everyone else, which is the opposite of how it is. If anything it is the group leaning on the individual. Call it tyranny by consensus if you must. Anyone is free to ignore it, but it's pointless moaning after the fact if people quite predictably doubt you. Nobody is forcing anyone to log all their ascents publicly on 8a.nu or swap them for goods/money either. If you want to have your contrarian 'I'm don't need to prove anything' cake, you can hardly expect to eat your 8a.nu points/free boots cake as well.
As for Will Hunt's comment - He has no need to prove anything any more than I do when I do new probs, because we are both operating below the relevant significance level. If he doesn't like filming he should stop doing it  . The fact he continues is proof that he gets enough value from the exercise to outweigh the mild pain in the arse entailed.