[T_B]

Or u could just go lo carb, lose 5 kilos and get the same result  Go on, tell me I'm wrong 

[Stu Littlefair]

You're wrong At least the automatic equating of low-carb with low-calorie is wrong.

Gav - if you're after confirmation that it's worthwhile, I think it can be. After 10 years or so of no significant strength gains I think I got a fair chunk stronger by a phase of high-volume fingerboarding (anderson-style hangs), followed by a phase of high-intensity board bouldering.

The next season I tried to replace the fingerboarding with high-volume bouldering but saw no noticeable improvement. So for me it worked.

[dave]

I can hang the shallow 2 finger pockets on a BM1k with as much weight as crimping the two edges with 4 fingers.

 

The benefits of a kyloe-in apprenticeship?

[gme]

Or u could just go lo carb, lose 5 kilos and get the same result  Go on, tell me I'm wrong 

Thats phase 3 of the plan. Its will be hard though unless the invent good zero carb beer.

[gme]

I can hang the shallow 2 finger pockets on a BM1k with as much weight as crimping the two edges with 4 fingers.

 

The benefits of a kyloe-in apprenticeship?

And living in Buoux for two years.

[gme]

You're wrong At least the automatic equating of low-carb with low-calorie is wrong.

Gav - if you're after confirmation that it's worthwhile, I think it can be. After 10 years or so of no significant strength gains I think I got a fair chunk stronger by a phase of high-volume fingerboarding (anderson-style hangs), followed by a phase of high-intensity board bouldering.

The next season I tried to replace the fingerboarding with high-volume bouldering but saw no noticeable improvement. So for me it worked.

Cheers. This is the type of evidence i was hoping to find. I am only focusing on hangs for 10-12 sessions following reading anderson brothers stuff as thats when they suggest the gains flatten out. Once thats done its back on the boards.
I am not following anderson high volume methods but more maisch style hangs after a short campus session to warm up. Feel pretty worked the day after so it feels like its doing something. Time will tell i guess but i will stick at it.

[tomtom]

Weight dropped to 11st 1lb...

M: Doctors in the Am - then wall at Lunchtime - I think it went alright.. can't remember...

Tu: Work

We: Work

Thu: Curbar - as it was drying. Trackside wet - ended up warming up and playing on bad landing for a while. Eventually worked up to repeat Bad Lip - then worked some of the moves on la Muse... did OK - but not really anything like on form.

Fr: Up early - flight to Tenerife with our students.. all day travelling.

Sa: 15km walk - lots of up and down. Yoga for 30 min in the evening.

Su: More walking.....

I suspect my grit season is now over....

[Sasquatch]

Gav - I'm in about the exact place you are.  I weigh about the same, and similar finger strength now after FB.  I did loads of bouldering, loads of climbing, loads of steep board work, and none of them got my fingers stronger like deadhanging.  I'm 100% convinced that for me they jumped me from a max of 7C+ to 8A+.  Now if I can drop my weight a touch, I may be able to look at 8B max...  I've been climbing 22 years, and spent so much time doing new and different stuff, that I have relatively good skills, but my fingers just had never gotten the strength.  That's me though, and not everyone.  sounds like you're in a similar spot though.

Thanks. This does sound pretty similar. My fingers have always been my weak link, especially crimping. My hangs have been very much focused on crimping to try to improve it and i am getting improvements in hangs. Due to time constraints ( and the fact that being nearly 50 means i need more rest) i didnt have the option of boards and hangs i had to pick one of them so having heard and read so much about hangs i thought i would try something different.

Your the 1st person who has come back who seems to really believe they made a big difference.
It was reading how good at hanging really average boulders were that started putting doubts in my head but maybe that is them not focusing on there weaknesses.

I think so much of it is in an honest assessment of your weakest link relative to your goals.  According to Tommy's lattice testing, at current weight (80kg), I'm about 15-20% below the average for my "grade".  When I'm at "fighting weight" (about 74-75kg) I'm still about 7.5% below average for the grade.  I was "below" average across almost every aspect, but finger strength was the worst.  And that was after doing FBing and seeing significant gains.

As a 40yo, I hear ya on the needing rest and such, ad I'm sure it gets worse.  Personally, The finger strength aspect for me is still so key, I continue to do at east 1 hang session a week as maintenance regardless of the current season/training aspect. 

[T_B]

The more I read about heavier climbers and their lack of finger strength on a one arm hang test, the more I think it has less relevance to actual climbing than people think. I'm 84kg and would probably have to take 15-20% bw off, yet I've climbed multiple 7C+ and a few 8as. I'd be interested to know what Steve Maisch can do as isn't he pretty big?

[Murph]

I'd be interested to know what Steve Maisch can do as isn't he pretty big?

Said on Reddit that when he was in shape he could 1/2 crimp 10 second 18mm two hand with +140lbs @170lb bw. So not exactly light or weak. 

Don't think he said one hand and doesn't look like he has a metric for one hand hang strength benchmark. Which is sort of interesting.


https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/3sp11j/steve_maisch_ama/

[Sasquatch]

The more I read about heavier climbers and their lack of finger strength on a one arm hang test, the more I think it has less relevance to actual climbing than people think. I'm 84kg and would probably have to take 15-20% bw off, yet I've climbed multiple 7C+ and a few 8as. I'd be interested to know what Steve Maisch can do as isn't he pretty big?

I'm equally weak on a two arm hang test  

IME, the biggest difference is that if you have good technique you can generally apply more weight to your feet.  As a big climber, this can offset a part of the finger strength issues. In many respects heavier climbers have no choice but to learn to put more weight into their feet early on, whereas lighter climbers can cheat through a bit more (especially bouldering in gyms these days) and just pull.  However, there is alot of body mechanics to learning to control foot cutting (1 or 2 foot cuts mid move), and sometimes heavier climbers need to learn this as they progress, whereas sometime the lighter stronger guys have it down already. 

[Murph]

Taller climbers don't need to be as strong for a given grade, so as the heavier guys are probably also taller these things interact.

Also consider how people get/got strong fingers in the first place. At one extreme there's someone who goes climbing a lot and is talented but never does any fingerboards (the climber)....well if they have the exact same finger strength as someone who hangs a lot but climbs very little (the hanger)....it's obvious who would perform better on a rock.

And that's the weak/strong for the grade disparity in a nutshell. Doesn't mean the hanger doesn't climb harder grades than he would do without strong fingers, and also doesn't mean the climber wouldn't benefit from stronger fingers.

[alx]

I'd be interested to know what Steve Maisch can do as isn't he pretty big?

Steve is quiet tall but skinny and ripped, I'm 193cm and he was quiet a bit shorter than me when we met in Rocklands last year.

- sorry full time forum lurker until recently..

[Sasquatch]

I'm 5'10", so not exactly tall. 

[gme]

The more I read about heavier climbers and their lack of finger strength on a one arm hang test, the more I think it has less relevance to actual climbing than people think. I'm 84kg and would probably have to take 15-20% bw off, yet I've climbed multiple 7C+ and a few 8as. I'd be interested to know what Steve Maisch can do as isn't he pretty big?

I always thought like you that its a lightweights trick. The stuff you see megos and others doing usually only totals around our bodyweight as they are all under 60kg to start with. I had something in my head that as the forearms are small muscles the ability to train them is probably more restricted than the large muscles used in say a deadlift so maybe the ability to progress was more limited.

However i just saw on beastmakers instagram that someone called Jan Gru did a 100kg total. 88kg bodyweight plus 12kg so its obviously possible. Just need to try harder i guess.

[gme]

[/quote]

Thanks. This does sound pretty similar. My fingers have always been my weak link, especially crimping. My hangs have been very much focused on crimping to try to improve it and i am getting improvements in hangs. Due to time constraints ( and the fact that being nearly 50 means i need more rest) i didnt have the option of boards and hangs i had to pick one of them so having heard and read so much about hangs i thought i would try something different.

Your the 1st person who has come back who seems to really believe they made a big difference.
It was reading how good at hanging really average boulders were that started putting doubts in my head but maybe that is them not focusing on there weaknesses.
[/quote]

I think so much of it is in an honest assessment of your weakest link relative to your goals.  According to Tommy's lattice testing, at current weight (80kg), I'm about 15-20% below the average for my "grade".  When I'm at "fighting weight" (about 74-75kg) I'm still about 7.5% below average for the grade.  I was "below" average across almost every aspect, but finger strength was the worst.  And that was after doing FBing and seeing significant gains.

As a 40yo, I hear ya on the needing rest and such, ad I'm sure it gets worse.  Personally, The finger strength aspect for me is still so key, I continue to do at east 1 hang session a week as maintenance regardless of the current season/training aspect.
[/quote]

I have not done a lattice test so i cant reference it. I have done a pretty honest self assessment based on all the Steve Maisch stuff and my finger strength was without doubt the worst thing, hence my focus. Most of the other stuff i did alright in (not 15 reps benching my bodyweight though).

I also hear that the edge lattice do there tests on is much smaller the the beastmaker rung so my scores one armed will be even worse.

[T_B]

I also hear that the edge lattice do there tests on is much smaller the the beastmaker rung so my scores one armed will be even worse.

It's significantly poorer, especially as there's no nestling to be had.

As a bit of an aside, I'm half way through reading The Big Fat Surprise, which basically rips apart all of the scientific research into diet and how it relates to heart disease. Any 'research' relating to training for climbing needs to be approached with a big fat dose of skepticism. Obvs.

[galpinos]

As a bit of an aside, I'm half way through reading The Big Fat Surprise, which basically rips apart all of the scientific research into diet and how it relates to heart disease.

I'll have to get a copy for my wife, she was at a cardiovascular health conference yesterday!

[gme]

As a bit of an aside, I'm half way through reading The Big Fat Surprise, which basically rips apart all of the scientific research into diet and how it relates to heart disease. Any 'research' relating to training for climbing needs to be approached with a big fat dose of skepticism. Obvs.

Are you suggesting i just loose loads of weight.

[T_B]

As a bit of an aside, I'm half way through reading The Big Fat Surprise, which basically rips apart all of the scientific research into diet and how it relates to heart disease.

I'll have to get a copy for my wife, she was at a cardiovascular health conference yesterday!

It's pretty heavy going, but equally pretty shocking. I'm almost not looking forward to the latter part of it, as I think I can guess what's coming.

[T_B]

As a bit of an aside, I'm half way through reading The Big Fat Surprise, which basically rips apart all of the scientific research into diet and how it relates to heart disease. Any 'research' relating to training for climbing needs to be approached with a big fat dose of skepticism. Obvs.

Are you suggesting i just loose loads of weight.

Depends what you wanna do. I was 2Kg heavier than I am now two years ago when I seemed to be bouldering outside harder than ever before. But then 2Kg lighter than that when I re-climbed Basic Ben, a truer litmus test.

[webbo]

Mon. Board lapping a few problems. Dumbbell workout. Bike 1 hr intervals.
Tue. Nothing.
Wed. Nothing.
Thu. 30 warm up problems the repeaters 5 secs on 5 off x 5 5 sets with 42 lbs added. Bike 1 hr intervals.
Fri. Bike 64.83 miles 3 hrs 53 mins. Grandson came for weekend.
Sat. Nothing.
Sun. Board doing laps on problems 35 in total. Bike 23.11 miles 1 hr 23 mins steady ride. Family walk for a couple of hours.

[r-man]

As a bit of an aside, I'm half way through reading The Big Fat Surprise, which basically rips apart all of the scientific research into diet and how it relates to heart disease. Any 'research' relating to training for climbing needs to be approached with a big fat dose of skepticism. Obvs.

Sounds interesting, but google reveals TBFS is perhaps distorting quite a lot of the research to support her theory...

This seems like quite a rigorous critique, though I haven't got the interest to read it all from start to finish...
https://thescienceofnutrition.wordpress.com/2014/08/10/the-big-fat-surprise-a-critical-review-part-1/

New Scientist review utters a word of caution...
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22329801-400-fat-and-sugar-diet-of-confusion/