[shark]

Finger rolls with a barbell or dumbells seems to be the standard gym way to get bigger forearms but obviously they are not isometric exercises. I've seen it mentioned here that isometric exercises arent as good at stimulating foream muscle growth and the best thing is to combine the two i.e finger rolls and deadhanging which I recall Serpico had done with success. Horst is an advocate of finger rolls but this approach is contested by Doug Hunter (Self Coached Climber) on a rockclimbing.com thread mainly on the basis of "encourag(ing) climbers to use sport specific training methods the results of which can be directly measured in terms of climbing performance" which seems a bit lame.

So finger rolls as an exercise - does it just make big dumb forearm muscle or does it aid building isometric finger stregth ? If the latter - done seperately from deadhanging or with it ?

[rodma]

I've never really wanted to risk using my pulleys as, erm,..., pulleys in that sense of the word. I always imagine my tendons happily sawing away at whatever little ligament I have left

[Nibile]

no idea about the real benefits respetc finger strength. I've always used them as a warm up or to recover from injuries.
sorry.

[abarro81]

I'm afraid I have no idea... but would also be interested in the answer should you find it.

[clgladiator]

I used to do these with a barbell at college. Its useful to have a squat rack so you dont drop the bar onto the floor as you need a surprising amount of weight. I cant vouch for the long term effects, as i didnt do them for very long due to a possibly unrelated forearm hernia. The exercise felt like it was working at the time though.

[ghisino]

I have used them intensively for manteinance while having an injuried shoulder, and since them i've randomly used a similar gadget ( www.turntillburn.ch )

I find they are boring but interesting at lower intensities/higher repetitions. Not traumatic, nice for pump-based work at home.

not very practical for strenght though:
-if you use a dumbell the loads get quite high
-even with a turntillburn setup, it starts to feel oddly unconfortable (though it might not be injury-prone, and padding the bar with tennis grip definitely helps)

[douglas]

are finger rolls equivalent to pumping a suitable captain of crush?

[Nibile]

don't think so, with CoC you have help from the thumb and the range of motion is smaller.
with rolls you go from almost fully stretched fingers to fully closed. I don't use the thumb.

[douglas]

Cheers!

[Tommy]

Shark,

Physiology books and all that bollocks tell us that:

Train static strength and you will become stronger statically (and you will build muscle)
Train dynamic strength and you will become stronger dynamically (and you will build muscle).

There is a cross-over in performance between the 2, but you are much better off training statically, if your aim is to build static strength. If however, you feel that you are close to max muscular recruitment (with what you have) then most likely you best option is to try and increase the cross sectional area of your appropriate muscle.

Your forearms always look pretty big to me 

[duncan]

This is idle musing rather than based on any real evidence .... but are long finger flexors (ie the main forearm muscles) not working eccentrically when you first put any weight through them, especially if you snatch for a hold?  It would be interesting to do a video analysis.  Well, I'd find it interesting.  Some eccentric work might not be such a bad idea.

[rodma]

This is idle musing rather than based on any real evidence .... but are long finger flexors (ie the main forearm muscles) not working eccentrically when you first put any weight through them

Yes, even when fingerboarding/deadhanging and especially when campussing.

It would def be nice to be able to hang fully open one-handed and roll up to full crimp, but I doubt that I'll ever be able to do that even if i did finger rolls. It would take an exceptional amount of load half way down the finger to be equivalent to full body weight at the finger tips (maybe not for Paul b) 

I guess that anything that may assist you with better grip strength is worth investigating 

[shark]

is to try and increase the cross sectional area of your appropriate muscle.

Your forearms always look pretty big to me

Sorry can you explain this a bit. Isn't increasing the cross sectional of a muscle is just the same as saying increasing its girth and if so how does this differ from any other type of hypertrophy.

Yeah - big forearms but weak fingers 

[Monolith]

Back int school days I used to go to our multigym most days where my sports teachers had very kindly allowed me to mount my fingerboard. I used to use it in conjunction with doing finger rolls and I think they're a brilliant exercise. To me at least, they seemed to simulate the incidences where one catches a hold open handed and turns it into a half or closed crimp. If I had access and more time to go to the gym I'd make a point of reintroducing this type of session. It goes without saying that you need to deadlift a considerable amount in order to make the exercise worthwhile.

Far from science, but experientially speaking thats my tuppence worth.

[Paul B]

For a similar thing to Monolith I heard that Earl used to hang open on a campus rung and turn it to a crimp, then back and repeat.

[rodma]

 

Back when I was feeling at my strongest (best comp performance, best rock performance), I had done similar for a period of several (like 8 or more) weeks.

It took the first few (weeks) to begin to get used to the sensation and increased load etc. plus have to be very self aware, so as to know exactly how hard to push it. Can easily be the quickest route to either YYFY or NNFN

[Tommy]

is to try and increase the cross sectional area of your appropriate muscle.

Your forearms always look pretty big to me

Sorry can you explain this a bit. Isn't increasing the cross sectional of a muscle is just the same as saying increasing its girth and if so how does this differ from any other type of hypertrophy.

Yeah - big forearms but weak fingers 

Yup, it's hypertrophy. Not some new secret I'm afraid.

In a way look at any strong climber and look at their forearms. Are they like your thighs? No, so you know that's not your problem.

Look at it in another way - both you and I are both weak as piss. What have we not done in vast quantities in the last 5 years? Boulder, campus, fingerboard, short 2 bolt routes - so here lies the problem. We're probably both destined for "weak for the grade" glory 

 

[TobyD]

This is idle musing rather than based on any real evidence .... but are long finger flexors (ie the main forearm muscles) not working eccentrically when you first put any weight through them, especially if you snatch for a hold?  It would be interesting to do a video analysis.  Well, I'd find it interesting.  Some eccentric work might not be such a bad idea.

That sounds like sense to me; in a similar way to the way that, say the upper arm agonist / antagonist work con / eccentrically to alternately pull and stabilise in a deep lock?

Shark, i can't help but think that, although the finger rolls may help by a tiny percentage, it just lacks the specificity to really be a worthwhile training routine. Back to the beastmaker!

[Ollie Wragg]

It's not just about how big your muscles are,  a lot of the early gain is through neural adaptations, not through increase in muscular strength.

[Adam Lincoln]

For a similar thing to Monolith I heard that Earl used to hang open on a campus rung and turn it to a crimp, then back and repeat.

Saw a vid of Daniel Woods doing this recently. Says it all really.

[Boredboy]

If it's stronger fingers your after, as opposed to massive pumped up forearms, then hanging off tiny holds has got to be way more beneficial than finger curling Iron? That in mind those sort of exercises- low weight / high rep are pretty good for building a good base to other training by encouraging improvements in local blood supply and healthy tendons with all the endurance and healing benefits that go with that. So you may get stronger fingers with less chance of injury if you do finger curls and hang off tiny holds!  

[saltbeef]

For a similar thing to Monolith I heard that Earl used to hang open on a campus rung and turn it to a crimp, then back and repeat.

yes he told me himself about this, he didn't mention the back down bit. that sounds like the bit liable to snap stuff. take it steady.

[rodma]

If it's stronger fingers your after, as opposed to massive pumped up forearms, then hanging off tiny holds has got to be way more beneficial than finger curling Iron? That in mind those sort of exercises- low weight / high rep are pretty good for building a good base to other training by encouraging improvements in local blood supply and healthy tendons with all the endurance and healing benefits that go with that. So you may get stronger fingers with less chance of injury if you do finger curls and hang off tiny holds!

Finger curling iron does improve grip strength, so long as the load is sufficiently large. It is your forearms that work your fingers, so i don't really get the point you are trying to make.

[Boredboy]

Hey soz if you didn't get the point. I thought the original question was about whether finger curls would make you a better climber / stronger boulderer, so I thought probably not as the specific grip strength and muscle bulk gained would likely to be not directly translatable. However I thought that if you did a high  rep - low weight finger curl sets to improve local vascularization to forearms and tendons etc this may have some benefits to recovery and general health of the common flexor origin and other tendons. And...... if then done in conjunction with hanging of small crimps of varying sizes and with varying grips some extra benefits may be seen.... possibly. 

[rodma]

finger rolls are not that dissimilar to hanging a hold open-handed and curling up to crimped, that is one of the reasons that they are beneficial. I'm only against them because I'm exceptionally tweaky when it comes to almost anything grip related.

And as for spontaneously sprouting giant forearms just by doing a bit of extra training.