[cheque]

I'm really quite poor at laybacking and the list of routes requiring sustained sections of it that I've failed on in recent months is varied, featuring some of quite embarrassingly low grades. I get worn out really quickly, particularly when I'm required to place trad gear at the same time, largely in the triceps. After I've been on a layback route I feel absolutely cooked and I find it takes me longer to recover in the days after as well. This isn't really the case with similarly-graded face, crack, slab etc. climbing.

The obvious advice is, I realise, "try as many routes as you can with laybacking in" which is what I'm doing, but can anyone offer advice for supplementary training for this please?

[Johnny Brown]

Any routes you can name? Grade etc?

For the sustained Yosemite style laybacking I tend to find a chore (e.g, Split Pillar, Grand Wall Squamish), I find it helps to intersperse rapid sections of laybacking with resting/ gear placing on jams. For a right-facing layback rest with your right limbs wedged well, stand tall, keep your hands below shoulder level and face left.  When moving keep your feet high, arms straight and make the most of smearing your arse cheek.

[AndyR]

...arms straight and make the most of smearing your arse cheek.

Stealth shorts?

[JamieG]

One thing possibly worth considering, following on from habrich posted, is the trade-off between footwork and you arms. The higher your feet arm the more secure they generally are, but the more strain you put on your arms. If you can keep your feet lower you will get less tired, but then the risk is you are more likely to slip. Maybe try to improve your footwork (or confidencce in it) on smears and small holds.

Also I agree I get knackered on laybacks after awhile.

[tomtom]

I think work on your body position.. Being taller - for me its really easy (and sometimes necessary) to run my feet up quite high (quite close to my hands) and this puts alot more strain on the arms/hands than if they are lower..

[SA Chris]

One thing possibly worth considering, following on from habrich posted, is the trade-off between footwork and you arms. The higher your feet arm the more secure they generally are, but the more strain you put on your arms. If you can keep your feet lower you will get less tired, but then the risk is you are more likely to slip. Maybe try to improve your footwork (or confidencce in it) on smears and small holds.

+1. Was going to say the same thing. I also find that if the crack is narrow enough you can wedge the side of your foot into the crack to make it more secure. Also longer reaches and bigger steps get you up faster but are more tiring and less secure so you need to strike that balance.

[Johnny Brown]

Protection tactics aren't generally the issue on the UK that they are abroad - for me they are often the psychological crux on such granite cracks. Laybacking isn't typically compatible with shuffling a cam up alongside you, and if its a consistent width there are big runouts to deal with. Fitness is great, but being secure in the rests and moving confidently into and out of them is equally important. Agree on the smears bit - decent boots help, not the shite yanks usually wear.

Here's a bit of a horrowshow from last summer:



What you can't see is the 25m of technical corner climbing that made up the first half of the pitch and consumed half the rack. Peer round the capping roof of that to view the above - another 20m of fist crack to layback... and two cams left. Shortly after this photo Bransby made my day by falling off - seconding 5.11   

[Pantontino]

That's a good tick!

I once saw him resort to aid on a F7c slate groove (entirely understandable given the glassy hell he was engaged with), but surely this sort of endless monkey crack business is his natural habitat?

[Johnny Brown]

That's funny, I jammed as much of it as possible, then Ben seconded me in a high speed layback with his feet above his head.

[duncan]

Apologies in advance if the following is obvious.

Most importantly, keep faffing to a minimum, you need to get on with it.

As above, jam as much as you can. Even if it is only for a couple of moves you will be fatiguing a different set of muscles and is usually easier to place gear from jams.

Try to work out where the stopping points and gear placements are likely to be before setting off and aim to sprint between these. Accept a certain amount of running it out: placing gear in the layback position is usually hard work and it's frequently not worth exhausting yourself trying to fiddle in something blind. Get on with it.

Re-rack so likely gear is on the outside.

Footwork is a lot like slab climbing. Keep your feet as low as possible. Once you have a feel for how much you can rely on your feet, usually a lot more than initially seems likely, it becomes a bit less exhausting. Milk any smears or edges as much as you can to keep as much weight off your arms as possible.

Get on with it.

I like laybacking!




Stefan Glowacz, keeping his feet low despite shoddy shoes:




IO2 laybacking when he should be jamming:

[Paul B]

IO2 laybacking when he should be jamming:

Should be jamming? I was INSIDE that thing by then (and whimpering / cussing a lot).

Laybacking seems to be my weakest type of crack so far this trip (the 5.9 LB pitch on east buttress of El Cap had me crimping for dear life). Running it out and a good knowledge of how wide the crack 'feels' to plug cams in quickly when you can't really see has helped me (I tested those cams vigorously at times when the commitment was misplaced).

[duncan]

Hello Paul, any good laybacking on Half Dome?

Should be jamming? I was INSIDE that thing by then (and whimpering / cussing a lot).

Whole body jamming. Normal sized individuals can get an arm and a leg in. Still jamming (tommy, back me up here!)

[Paul B]

Hello Paul, any good laybacking on Half Dome?

I wouldn't know, it keeps throwing rocks at my wife (is there an emoticon for 'unhappy newly wed wife at 5am nearly hit my rockfall'?  ).

I'll never get her back up there now.