Come on, Shark. What route is it?Ben's Roof?
Come on, Shark. What route is it?Ben's Roof?
1) are there any other options (such as clipping the bolt above and clipping yourself into the dead rope (tramlining some people call it)
Come on, Shark. What route is it?Ben's Roof?
I don't have a problem if there is a genuine case for it. There's plenty of old bolt litter around the crags that someone could offset the extra bolt by tidying up a nearby route.
In all seriousness though, if you're too embarrassed (or whatever) to name the route, then it sounds like it doesn't really need it :)
I put an extra bolt in Liquid Ambar on the crux.
So Ted - if we over drill the hole and promise to bang it home after( if requested) and plug is that ok?
:popcorn:
I'd largely agree with Reeve on this, in that its justifiable but if other options exist should be avoided; if would really depend on the route: what / where is it?!
I think that there could be a case for it (I mean generally, not on blind date obvs) but it would be on a case by case basis and with a fairly high bar for what would constitute the right situation. Questions I would ask are:No
1) are there any other options (such as clipping the bolt above and clipping yourself into the dead rope (tramlining some people call it)
2) is working that section currently so difficult as to mean that you almost need a grade in hand to be able to effectively redpoint the routeMaybe
3) if this is being suggested as a solution, how have people coped before? Is the route as a whole that badly bolted?Generally climbed by people who can climb harder. It’s not badly bolted for leading though
4) Is it <i>really</i> necessary or just a bit more convenient? (obviously this is a value judgement, but included to bring this into sharper focus)Convenient
Oh and 5) is it possible to get past it by climbing faster?No
I'd largely agree with Reeve on this, in that its justifiable but if other options exist should be avoided; if would really depend on the route: what / where is it?!
It’s an established sport route. It’s a dogging bolt so it isn’t necessary. Why should it matter which route it is or where - it’s the principle no?
Just because the existing bolts are in doesn't mean they are in the right place IMHO. Take Consenting for example. the 3rd bolt (in place since the 80's) is in a poor position and has been the cause of broken bones due to people decking. Should we consider this in the 'right' position just because its already there?
It isn't now since Ian Dunn fixed it! But the point stands.
Instead of coming up with some kind of general criteria would it not be be better to present your rationale to some combination of local climbers/active bolters/access advocates/climber who put up the route/people who have previously climbed it or who are currently trying it?
Just curious about an extra bolt purely placed for dogging that is probably not going to get clipped on lead
Just curious about an extra bolt purely placed for dogging that is probably not going to get clipped on lead
When did the Bat Route one go in? I had naively assumed it was ancient as its very rusty.
Off topic, but how famous/notorious was the Obsession runout? On a level with New Dawn, where its seen as an integral part of the route, or was it always seen as an irritant?
Far be it for me to encourage bolting but Abracadabseil have got a bunch of lightly used 12mm Couer Pulse that were returned and we don't know what to do with. Can also source new 8mm obvs.
Revelations
Like it! Planners often stipulate that if you take a tree out that you plant a replacement. Yes tidying up karma is possible but I don’t think that ethically that is sound
I thought the runout on Obsession added to the character.Steve Crowe put it in for Karin IIRC.
Anyway - isn’t there something else you could try instead in the Peak Shark?
Anyway - isn’t there something else you could try instead in the Peak Shark?
Pretty crappy comment per se.
Just to be clear I was in fact scoping out reaction for a friend who was up for just pressing ahead and putting one in. I did have a go at dogging it and it was a pain. As I said I am agnostic on the subject.
(Pedant mode) wouldn’t a dogging bolt reduce the likelihood of the bottom (off the deck) parts getting polished?
Anyway - isn’t there something else you could try instead in the Peak Shark?
I think it's a really bad idea.
Peppering an existing route with new 12mm holes* because its a pain in the arse to dog a section? Just no; it seems like the same principle as not chipping a hold to make the route easier, albeit a greyer version of that dilemma. I'd prefer a new dogging bolt TBH.
*obvs an exaggeration for the purposes of making the point.
I obviously have no skin in the peak game.
Perhaps more aligned with your sentiment, in this case, is that it results in a fantastic route not being bolted particularly well.
Leave it. Everyone that's ever done it has done it with the bolt in that placeThey haven't had a choice
whilst it's not perfectly placed, it's not that bad either.Its rubbish. Too high and too far left - see photo below
it's hardly onerous doing the one 5c move to get into the right hand slot from the floor.5c! :lol: more like hard 6a or 6b
the bolts replaced like-for-like the drilled threads that protected the original ascent.The drilled threads may have been fine for the ground up yo-yo style which was the way it was originally climbed but is a pain in the arse for working then redpointing
In fact, I believe there’s already an old bolt hole down and left from the slot: if you want a “dogging bolt” just put a slider in that or something...
In fact, I believe there’s already an old bolt hole down and left from the slot: if you want a “dogging bolt” just put a slider in that or something...
You mean the useful intermediate hold..
That’s bonkers! Have you ever thought about putting in a dogging bolt instead?...
It is a fat gray triangular headed petzl? resin bolt
Never mind deviating to the triple 19, keep your aim on the triple 20...
Well hurry along, it's soon going to be a new decade...