UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => chuffing => Topic started by: dunnyg on June 03, 2018, 08:46:50 pm
-
Looking to get some dedicated sport draws for Yorkshire lime. Trying to work out if there is any benefit of spending extra on them or if a set of reasonably priced draws with fat tapes will do the job. When I'm bolt clipping I onsight 7a on my best days and looking to project some 7b to 7c, if that makes any difference. Current thoughts are DMM aero but any recommendations would be really useful.
-
Dunno about brand but just make sure you get most of them in 18cm and a few longer. Stubby draws are useless.
-
Dunno about brand but just make sure you get most of them in 18cm and a few longer. Stubby draws are useless.
Agreed. I don't know about useless... But far less versitile. Personally I'd advise going for the best ones you can afford, dmm alpha sport, petzl spirit, the mammut draws are nice too. They should last a decade at least and buying new tapes every few years if you use them a lot isn't a big deal.
I have some of the wild country protons as well they're pretty good
-
You’re going to be grabbing those draws, the fatter the better.
-
I find the very pronounced gate on the Wild Country draws really good for clipping (and clip-sticking):
https://www.wildcountry.com/en-gb/hardware/karabiners-quickdraws/quickdraws/proton-sport-draw-5-pack?number=40-PROTONSDS
-
Or if money is tight, a trip to Kilnsey one evening....
-
Sounds like it is worth splashing out/picking only the best from Kilnsey. I'm guessing other than looking cool, mixing and matching between sets doesnt make much of a difference and that I am unlikely to notice much difference between the top end draws from WC/DMM/Petzl etc.
-
Totally agree on longer quickdraws - 17/18 cm form the core of my rack, plus a few longer ones and just a couple of short ones. Never understood why majority of quickdraws on sale are 10/12 cm. Thick nylon tape is my other requirement.
On price I can never get very excited by premium draws, just buy whatever's decently priced and never had a problem, can usually find something for around £10-£12 per draw. Most recently got some black diamond freewires on offer at £50 for 6. I guess miss out on some of the smart shaping plus they don't have a clean nose which may bother you if you're into really steep stuff but has never been a significant issue for me.
-
The wild country protons are on offer at outside at £19 each for the 17cm and 25cm versions.
-
I'd like to add: Do not get lightweight crabs for sport climbing. They have more failure-modes than heavy duty sport crabs, and in sport climbing falls onto a single draw that simply must hold are commonplace.
-
I've just bought some 12cm ones from the EpicTV shop. If you can stomach using the EpicTV shop, which is the worst thing in the world, then you can get 6 quickdraws for £70. Black Diamond Positron Quickpack. The price swung it for me on this. I shopped around a bit and couldn't really find anything in the 18cm range that was a good price. The only thing really wrong with these draws is the length (they've got a chunky tape, solid gates with clean noses, and a non-stupid rubber retainer - i.e. not just a little rubber band of the sort that was involved in that awful Tito Traversa accident). For clips that really need something longer I can dip into my trad draws, or I can get a few longer draws at a later date.
The DMM Alpha things are supposed to be very good but they're in the range of £20 per draw which is a bit eye watering.
Adam, it's funny you should mention that. Someone mentioned to me last week that someone had moved some of your perma-draws onto a route next door at Kilnsey. Not sure if that's true or not or if your post is related.
-
Adam, it's funny you should mention that. Someone mentioned to me last week that someone had moved some of your perma-draws onto a route next door at Kilnsey. Not sure if that's true or not or if your post is related.
I was up there on Sunday and the old Metolius draws above the Hardy Annual belay seemed to be in the same places as before but there were some additional DMM draws on other previously unused bolts.
-
I have an even mix of short and medium draws in my sport rack and .i use them equally. Not sure why everyone’s so down on short ones?
I'd like to add: Do not get lightweight crabs for sport climbing. They have more failure-modes than heavy duty sport crabs, and in sport climbing falls onto a single draw that simply must hold are commonplace.
I imagine this is why he’s buying separate sport draws.
-
I'm not really big on new routing/leaving clips in projects so I will always be stripping them so only really need one set. I have plenty of lightweight draws but figured I want something chunky to abuse on bolts, mainly around yorkshire. I can't imagine needing more than 10-12 round here, occaisional suplemented by trad gear, but can always get more for the continent/peak if required.
£20 a draw is a bit on the steep side. I managed to get a £50 amazon voucher from work I was planning to burn on this which will take some of the sting out but i'm still a tight yorkshireman, its a bit of a battle. though if they last 10 years and i have to buy some new slings every once in a while (which seem to be about £4 a pop) its not too bad.
Currently thinking I'll get 1 or 2 shorties and some unknown number 17-18cm ones. I'll report back after some more web trawling...
-
I'd like to add: Do not get lightweight crabs for sport climbing. They have more failure-modes than heavy duty sport crabs, and in sport climbing falls onto a single draw that simply must hold are commonplace.
Good point. Having more than one bolt between you & doom in e.g. the Frankenjura is more the exception than the rule.
-
The gate on DMM Alphas is a thing of wonder and seems to suck the rope into the carabiner. The rather cheaper Aero shares it and I like the carabiner just as much. The dogbone the Aero quickdraw is issued with is not quite as burly, if this is important. The Wild Country Proton looks remarkably similar to the Alpha. Are DMM the OEM?
I'd like to add: Do not get lightweight crabs for sport climbing. They have more failure-modes than heavy duty sport crabs, and in sport climbing falls onto a single draw that simply must hold are commonplace.
Good point. Having more than one bolt between you & doom in e.g. the Frankenjura is more the exception than the rule.
Having experienced the rope unclip itself from quickdraws twice, I get very uncomfortable with this and now use a draw with locking carabiners at both ends here. Edelrid’s pure slider allows high or sketchy first bolts to be stick-clipped with a locker. The pongoose clipstick can unclip sliders, not sure about other brands.
-
I had a few DMM alphas, then got some a load of shadows instead. a bit lighter with the same fat tape. A++ would recommend.
-
I have an Edelrid slider draw for critical situations too. Partners tend to find it confusing & complain but I don't care.
-
Personally I just go for something cheap with a clean nose and a fat tape. Everything else seems a bit marginal gains. These look decent https://www.decathlon.co.uk/x5-pack-slash-11-cm-id_8513711.html
-
Having experienced the rope unclip itself from quickdraws twice, I get very uncomfortable with this and now use a draw with locking carabiners at both ends here. Edelrid’s pure slider allows high or sketchy first bolts to be stick-clipped with a locker. The pongoose clipstick can unclip sliders, not sure about other brands.
I too get uncomfortable about this. One bolt between you and doom isn't exactly a rarity in UK sport. The fact that the chance of a rope unclipping itself is greater than 0 is pretty scary when you think of a lifetime's climbing and that falling off onto bolts is commonplace. Obviously this marks me out as a complete sport punter because there's loads of stuff that triggers alarm bells for me which doesn't seem to faze the sport crew (relying on one snapgate crab at the top while the rope goes back and forth while stripping is one. Top roping on a single snapgate or quickdraw is another).
What are the Edelrids like to clip on lead? If it's no more difficult I might get one or two to place on critical bolts.
-
What are the Edelrids like to clip on lead? If it's no more difficult I might get one or two to place on critical bolts.
Not easy to get the rope into them, easier to use a screwgate and do it up, the edeldrid's are best used for the bolt end.
-
Personally I just go for something cheap with a clean nose and a fat tape. Everything else seems a bit marginal gains. These look decent https://www.decathlon.co.uk/x5-pack-slash-11-cm-id_8513711.html
Anyone used these? Even buying Petzl tapes to turn them into 17 or 25 cm draws would make it £60 for 5 which is pretty good value if they're any good
-
Do you have to buy 'draws Barrows? :tease:
-
What are the Edelrids like to clip on lead? If it's no more difficult I might get one or two to place on critical bolts.
Not easy to get the rope into them, easier to use a screwgate and do it up, the edeldrid's are best used for the bolt end.
Personally I find them ok. Easy enough to push the little latch with your thumb or the knuckle of your index finger. Best to have a play with one in a shop obviously if you can find one.
-
Personally I just go for something cheap with a clean nose and a fat tape. Everything else seems a bit marginal gains. These look decent https://www.decathlon.co.uk/x5-pack-slash-11-cm-id_8513711.html
Anyone used these? Even buying Petzl tapes to turn them into 17 or 25 cm draws would make it £60 for 5 which is pretty good value if they're any good
I bought some cheap in Spain 3 years ago but the rope end on mine are wiregates. They're okay, got no complaints and are lasting well but they are a very short quickdraw and are almost always used for the first bolt. Work fine with a clipstick. Putting Petzl dogs on would improve them for sure.
-
Adam, it's funny you should mention that. Someone mentioned to me last week that someone had moved some of your perma-draws onto a route next door at Kilnsey. Not sure if that's true or not or if your post is related.
I was up there on Sunday and the old Metolius draws above the Hardy Annual belay seemed to be in the same places as before but there were some additional DMM draws on other previously unused bolts.
A mixture of mine and dunnings at mo
-
Having experienced the rope unclip itself from quickdraws twice, I get very uncomfortable with this and now use a draw with locking carabiners at both ends here. Edelrid’s pure slider allows high or sketchy first bolts to be stick-clipped with a locker. The pongoose clipstick can unclip sliders, not sure about other brands.
This has happen to me three times, once on a multi pitch in Lofoten and twice in Gorge du Tarn. I've several time thought that I'd get the Edelrid biners but I mostly double clip crucial clips (looks ugly when I leave project draws in, but I suspect sliders would be even less popular).
-
relying on one snapgate crab at the top while the rope goes back and forth while stripping is one. Top roping on a single snapgate or quickdraw is another
Neither of these should ever need to be the case.
-
Not even when you clip a single in situ snapgate (often equalised between two bolts) and lower off, cleaning as you go?
The chance of a fuck up are miniscule, but with thousands of people sport climbing every day around the world I'm surprised there aren't more accidents.
-
Not even when you clip a single in situ snapgate (often equalised between two bolts) and lower off, cleaning as you go?
The chance of a fuck up are miniscule, but with thousands of people sport climbing every day around the world I'm surprised there aren't more accidents.
They're usually steel, much deeper than a standard snapgate and have a smaller and more powerfully sprung gate though. But yeah, probably not as good as an equalised ring.
-
Not even when you clip a single in situ snapgate (often equalised between two bolts) and lower off, cleaning as you go?
The chance of a fuck up are miniscule, but with thousands of people sport climbing every day around the world I'm surprised there aren't more accidents.
They're usually steel, much deeper than a standard snapgate and have a smaller and more powerfully sprung gate though. But yeah, probably not as good as an equalised ring.
As in the lower-offs at Malham, on consenting for example? Never thought about them like that.
-
[/quote]
I mostly double clip crucial clips
[/quote]
This can be a bad idea. On a standard hanger you can get a leverage effect causing the outer krab at the bolt end to get bent, causing it to snap.
-
I mostly double clip crucial clips
This can be a bad idea. On a standard hanger you can get a leverage effect causing the outer krab at the bolt end to get bent, causing it to snap.
I had a feeling there would be something that made this a bad idea. Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
-
If one was concerned about a crucial clip and wanted some security for peace of mind, would it not be easier and safer to use a nice shiny screwgate? You could even have one on both ends of the draw for total peace of mind. Obviously not ideal in extremis mid crux, but would work fine if at a semi rest.
Also interesting point regarding the lower offs at Malham. I've never thought about it too much. Maybe thats for the best?!
-
Obviously not ideal in extremis mid crux
That's the problem though innit. If you're on a redpoint the chances of the crucial clip being right next to the rest are probably fairly small.
I know this discussion will seem silly to many, but sport climbing is the only discipline of climbing where you're taking falls regularly that would be fatal if the rope/clips/whatever fail. Trad climbing will have a much greater failure rate but a much lower rate of falling off. Even if the chances of system failure on sport are very low, across a lifetime's worth of climbing your number might well come up at some point.
-
I mostly double clip crucial clips
This can be a bad idea. On a standard hanger you can get a leverage effect causing the outer krab at the bolt end to get bent, causing it to snap.
Obviously. I don't arrange the crabs so this can happen. (This leverage effect causing the outer krab to snap was te cause of a farily bad ground fall in Gorge du Tarn a few years back btw.)
Mostly I attach the lower sling directly in the bolt (sling girth hitched directly on the bolt) or clip in both slings with the same krab.