UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => shootin' the shit => Topic started by: nai on April 19, 2016, 03:02:12 pm
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Oi Luke, a new baby's supposed to slow you down, you should be trotting out excuses not listing multiple successes
:rtfm:
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Oi Luke, a new baby's supposed to slow you down, you should be trotting out excuses not listing multiple successes
:rtfm:
:lol: No chance, I'm more motivated than ever. Especially as my eldest is now psyched for wall too!
I seem to be doing pretty well considering I haven't had a full nights sleep in over 2 weeks...
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Oi Luke, a new baby's supposed to slow you down, you should be trotting out excuses not listing multiple successes
:rtfm:
Nick Dixon did the second ascent of Indian Face just a few weeks after the birth of his second.
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One of my best friends and training addict started climbing way harder after having a child. I think it's due to being profoundly happy.
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I climb harder since Becoming a parent. For me it was because time suddenly becomes so precious the idea of wasting it by going out and pottering about having a nice time becomes, frankly, ridiculous. Much more attraction in getting (relatively) strong and making the limited outdoors time count.
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'zactly. I have at most two weekends free per month, if I'm lucky with the weather, so when I am outdoors on dry rock I want to be trying hard.
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Oi Luke, a new baby's supposed to slow you down, you should be trotting out excuses not listing multiple successes
:rtfm:
Nick Dixon did the second ascent of Indian Face just a few weeks after the birth of his second.
I don't know how I feel about that, being honest
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I climb harder since Becoming a parent. For me it was because time suddenly becomes so precious the idea of wasting it by going out and pottering about having a nice time becomes, frankly, ridiculous. Much more attraction in getting (relatively) strong and making the limited outdoors time count.
I agree, I know plenty of people who don't train, they get out a lot because they have no family but they have no focus.
My biggest progress in climbing was the year following our first being born.
Now we have 2 I feel even more focused and don't like to think I'm wasting any time. It's a good feeling! Plus what Nibs said, being really happy helps, as does having an encouraging other half.
Nick Dixon did the second ascent of Indian Face just a few weeks after the birth of his second.
I don't know how I feel about that, being honest
+1, I've never been into dangerous trad anyway but the thought of doing something like that with two kids at home seems pretty crazy. Would be interesting to know how that conversation went with his wife!
Personally I'm into trying hard, not trying to die...
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Nick Dixon did the second ascent of Indian Face just a few weeks after the birth of his second.
I don't know how I feel about that, being honest
+1, I've never been into dangerous trad anyway but the thought of doing something like that with two kids at home seems pretty crazy. Would be interesting to know how that conversation went with his wife!
Personally I'm into trying hard, not trying to die...
Probably told her as little as possible...
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I'm sure it's possible to climb harder after you have kids if you're a selfish git with a doormat as a wife. Or maybe if you have a nanny? Or if you don't have to work for a living perhaps? Or if you didn't climb much before and/or were pretty sh*t.
Most people that I know who have had kids enjoy doing family stuff and now don't climb so much, or as hard. They tend to get into other sports where they can make some progress rather than simply tread water.
You might find a few exceptions or people like me who have bouldered harder since kids due to bouldering 90% of the time, compared to tradding 50%, sport 40% and bouldering 10%. But generally speaking, kids will not help you improve your climbing.
As for dangerous stuff, it's a personal thing, but I can't help thinking someone is a selfish wanker if they do dangerous stuff whilst supposedly being responsible for children. What is considered dangerous is relative, but dangerous trad or mountaineering hmmm.
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Probably told her as little as possible...
I've taken that approach in the past, but in his case hard one to explain afterwards, as it was not exactly one you can keep to yourself.
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Probably told her as little as possible...
I've taken that approach in the past, but in his case hard one to explain afterwards, as it was not exactly one you can keep to yourself.
True, and presumably being married to someone capable of climbing Indian Face, they probably know a thing or two about climbing...
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I'm sure it's possible to climb harder after you have kids ... if you ... before ... were pretty sh*t.
Precisely my strategy.
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Jeez, I hope I got that story about Nick right! Btw, I posted it to show simply what is possible.
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I posted it to show simply what is possible.
So the point still stands even if you made it up! ;)
FWIW my climbing went down the pan when I started a family but I think other factors such as starting a business at the same time.
I think it is harder to maintain trad ability because you don't have as much time and most? feel an extra level of responsibility or at least an extra excuse. Sport climbing and even more so bouldering are easier to maintain a level because sessions are shorter and recovery time longer so you can slot it into family life better. Living close to crags is a massive help in this respect.
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Can you not just strap the baby to you when you're deadhanging and as the baby grows you also get stronger??
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Can you not just strap the baby to you when you're deadhanging and as the baby grows you also get stronger??
http://physiqonomics.com/the-myth-of-milo/
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Perfectly possible to climb harder after having kids, if some or more of the following are true, the more the better:
- you don't leave having kids till you're relatively old
- you weren't some kind of child prodigy who peaked at 17 and then slid downhill.
- you climbed/trained/ate in a lackadaisical fashion before kids, and can be more focussed/methodical afterwards.
- reasonably understanding other half, or at least not be a completely pussywhipped motherfucker.
- not have a job that requires you work a ridiculous number of hours a week/evenings/weekends.
- have got good local crags.
- go bouldering a lot.
- be prepared to go out on your own a lot, often at unsociable times.
- have some mates in a similar boat, mutual motivation.
- have absolutely no interest in participating in any other sports, especially cycling.
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Perfectly possible to climb harder after having kids, if some or more of the following are true, the more the better:
- reasonably understanding other half, or at least not be a completely pussywhipped motherfucker.
- not have a job that requires you work a ridiculous number of hours a week/evenings/weekends.
It was all looking relatively positively for me for a minute there.
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Can you not just strap the baby to you when you're deadhanging and as the baby grows you also get stronger??
http://physiqonomics.com/the-myth-of-milo/
Except he does say that during the first 6-12months you make big gains. The Internet says calfs take about 15months to mature. That's just a little longer than the big gains period. So it seems possible that milo wouldn't have been hitting plateaus whilst the calf was growing. That doesn't mean it's a true story, but I don't think this article has busted the myth.
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Perfectly possible to climb harder after having kids, if some or more of the following are true, the more the better:
- you don't leave having kids till you're relatively old
- you weren't some kind of child prodigy who peaked at 17 and then slid downhill.
- you climbed/trained/ate in a lackadaisical fashion before kids, and can be more focussed/methodical afterwards.
- reasonably understanding other half, or at least not be a completely pussywhipped motherfucker.
- not have a job that requires you work a ridiculous number of hours a week/evenings/weekends.
- have got good local crags.
- go bouldering a lot.
- be prepared to go out on your own a lot, often at unsociable times.
- have some mates in a similar boat, mutual motivation.
- have absolutely no interest in participating in any other sports, especially cycling.
All sounds about right, apart from last two, usually billy no mates, carrying a lot of pads.
Fortunately other half has stopped climbing and got into endurance type stuff (cycling, running (doing London Marathon this weekend) and swimming), so got good credits for getting out climbing/surfing/skiing.
Having willing / able grandparents nearby and being able to work flexible / reduced hours help too.
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Perfectly possible to climb harder after having kids, if some or more of the following are true, the more the better:
- you don't leave having kids till you're relatively old
- you weren't some kind of child prodigy who peaked at 17 and then slid downhill.
- you climbed/trained/ate in a lackadaisical fashion before kids, and can be more focussed/methodical afterwards.
- reasonably understanding other half, or at least not be a completely pussywhipped motherfucker.
- not have a job that requires you work a ridiculous number of hours a week/evenings/weekends.
- have got good local crags.
- go bouldering a lot.
- be prepared to go out on your own a lot, often at unsociable times.
- have some mates in a similar boat, mutual motivation.
- have absolutely no interest in participating in any other sports, especially cycling.
The ten commandments. Is your surname MacLeod ? ;D
I scored ten out of ten (assuming 34 isn't relatively old).
Watch this space.
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Perfectly possible to climb harder after having kids, if some or more of the following are true, the more the better:
- you don't leave having kids till you're relatively old NO
- you weren't some kind of child prodigy who peaked at 17 and then slid downhill. YES
- you climbed/trained/ate in a lackadaisical fashion before kids, and can be more focussed/methodical afterwards. YES
- reasonably understanding other half. YES
- not have a job that requires you work a ridiculous number of hours a week/evenings/weekends. YES
- have got good local crags. NO
- go bouldering a lot. Ahem...does indoors count?
- be prepared to go out on your own a lot, often at unsociable times. YES
- have some mates in a similar boat, mutual motivation. SOMEWHAT
- have absolutely no interest in participating in any other sports, especially cycling. YES!
That's a good list.
I always considered it was crucial to have at least two from 4, 5, and 6.
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Perfectly possible to climb harder after having kids, if some or more of the following are true, the more the better:
- you don't leave having kids till you're relatively old not sure but 35 wasn't exactly young
- you weren't some kind of child prodigy who peaked at 17 and then slid downhill. YES
- you climbed/trained/ate in a lackadaisical fashion before kids, and can be more focussed/methodical afterwards.YES 100% this
- reasonably understanding other half, or at least not be a completely pussywhipped motherfucker.YES
- not have a job that requires you work a ridiculous number of hours a week/evenings/weekends.YES
- have got good local crags.YES
- go bouldering a lot.YES
- be prepared to go out on your own a lot, often at unsociable times.YES on my own. Could invest lantern time for better results I guess.
- have some mates in a similar boat, mutual motivation.YES
- have absolutely no interest in participating in any other sports, especially cycling.YES
Great list. I think #3 - the relative shiteness is an important one. Can't see I'd have upped my game from something that was actually hard.
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I don't think I will ever surpass the level at which I climbed routes in my late 20s to mid 30s (too scared to do any hard trad and no time to develop required AncapCapPow whatever to climb harder sport than I used to) but my "training" used to revolve around arsing about at the wall on a rope and doing a few problems once a week in winter, and was always a bit of a punter when it came to hard bouldering, so that's what I tend to concentrate on at the moment.
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Perfectly possible to climb harder after having kids, if some or more of the following are true, the more the better:
- you don't leave having kids till you're relatively old
- you weren't some kind of child prodigy who peaked at 17 and then slid downhill.
- you climbed/trained/ate in a lackadaisical fashion before kids, and can be more focussed/methodical afterwards.
- reasonably understanding other half, or at least not be a completely pussywhipped motherfucker.
- not have a job that requires you work a ridiculous number of hours a week/evenings/weekends.
- have got good local crags.
- go bouldering a lot.
- be prepared to go out on your own a lot, often at unsociable times.
- have some mates in a similar boat, mutual motivation.
- have absolutely no interest in participating in any other sports, especially cycling.
I'm not sure if T_B's comment was directed at me but this list is spot on Dave and it exactly describes me.
I'm guessing I'm one of the younger Dad's on here being 27?
I go out a lot when the kids are in bed, although about a month ago I did question my sanity when I was sat in Parisella's Cave on my own at 11:45pm still trying Left Wall...
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I'm guessing I'm one of the younger Dad's on here being 27?
Possibly, but I was 28 when our eldest was born, so it's not crazy young.
27 is grandparent age in Doncaster afterall.
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27 is grandparent age in Doncaster afterall.
:lol:
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i agree with what dave said. Its harder with kids and you have to be more organised. life changes, you can't just go climbing every weekend as you did before kids or a relationship. For me personally I value getting out climbing far more than I ever did so train harder for those times and am more motivated when I get out to make the most of the day regardless of wind, cold, rain etc. I'm climbing harder than I ever have in pretty much every department. I thought T_B s post was pretty neggo on the whole.
For balance I do know a fair few climbers who have sacked off climbing since kids as they want an easy life and they would rather not negotiate with their partner/wife. Having an equal relationship takes work and is often not the path of least resistance. My partner is not a door mat, far from it, but I get out climbing 2 or 3 times a month (often only for a morning) and that seems fair considering our situation.
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Bit easier for me, since we both climb.
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How does that make it easier?
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How does that make it easier?
we can go out climbing together taking the wee guy with us, have training facilities at home, understand what we're each trying to achieve etc.
Edit: just to clarify that we weren't leaving our child at home
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In font last April there was a couple with a baby, and the dad was looking after him while the mum was trying a 7A+. Seemed like a good set up! Don't think that kids mean the end of days. I'll probably end up with some in a few years, I'm definitely going to sort out a decent home set up at that stage, and try and stick around Dorset with the girlfriends parents near by. She isn't a doormat either, far from it, and balance will need to be found!
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I'm guessing I'm one of the younger Dad's on here being 27?
Possibly, but I was 28 when our eldest was born, so it's not crazy young.
27 is grandparent age in Doncaster afterall.
With my first at 40, i guess that puts me on a par with Doncaster great grandparents!
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The ten commandments. Is your surname MacLeod ? ;D
I scored ten out of ten (assuming 34 isn't relatively old).
Watch this space.
Hmmm. Only six and a bit. Is that why I am plateau'd at/ below 8a, rather than being very close on an 8b?
Do you want an honest answer? I'm going to give you one anyway.
First re point 6 you have only recently ("recently" relative to our respective timespans) moved close to crags being in UAE and London before for those that dont know.
Secondly (point 7) the obvious area of potential gain (which we have repeatedly told you) is that you refuse to boulder (with lame excuses) despite having better quality bouldering than sport climbing on your doorstep. I have learnt to almost love bouldering and Im sure you can too. Its taken time for me and I know my approach isnt perfect but even so I've got two V/Font grades better. Your latest project was difficult because of the crux yes?. That should be a big clue in your face. Also when I say go bouldering I mean properly embrace it and get involved and don't potter with it in a token fashion. One of the things about bouldering is that it can make you try really hard. I don't think this was a lesson for me but it is for you. I do think that you can dig deeper and get extra performance from what you've already got though you almost certainly wont accept that's the case. Everyone thinks they try hard and keep trying hard but I believe only a handful I know really do. This applies to most climbers including very good ones.
You are capable of 8b. You have physical advantages over me (mass and finger strength). That 8b may not be in Squamish. The grades are harsh and bloc style which doesn't suit you but you can definitely do it and I wouldn't say it if I didn't believe it.
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Great. Of the two insect overlords of UKBouldering, one refuses to boulder and the other "almost loves" bouldering...
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TBH I'm not sure sharkypops is the best sales pitch for being very close to F8b....I wonder how many people have given up on the idea of hard redpointing since he started posting the dedicated but gruelling progress reports on here (I'm one!) :P :-*.
BTW with Breakfast I find the key is to turn the right heel-toe thing into a drag along the face to control the swing, also do it when it was still V5, and in a snowstorm, that worked for me.
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Great. Of the two insect overlords of UKBouldering, one refuses to boulder and the other "almost loves" bouldering...
We are open to offers
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The kids thing.. I thought about it quite deeply for the last five or so years and came to being completely happy with the idea of not passing on my genes to another gene container a.k.a. 'a child'. ;D My genes can die with me, I'm definitely fine with that. It took a few years of doubt to reach that point.
I'm of the mind that if I'd had kids in my twenties it would have been great (climbing would have suffered), but I don't want them now that I'm older and I don't feel like I'm going to regret anything.
My present situation has made me question how crucial being a blood parent is to having a good close bond with a partner's children. Aldous Huxley's description of multi-parenting in 'Island' resonates with me. Adoption, fostering and step-fathering a partner's child are options for those that don't want their own kids.
My current partner's daughter is ten. We get on really well. Her father's out of the picture -that probably helps. It feels really good - the best feeling - that I'm getting to know and love a little 'un and she's getting to know me. I'm really enjoying seeing her grow and flourish, helping her discover cool things like travelling around, routes, bouldering and camping, seeing her do well in tests etc. I love seeing things through her eyes. TBH I think the father is missing out on something magical and I'm getting to enjoy it instead. I'm lucky that both she and her mum are super active and love the outdoors and adventure.. (although finding someone like that wasn't just sheer good fortune you make your own to some extent).
That said.. I feel really lucky that I'm getting to enjoy all the best bits of children without having had to endure the shittier parts of parenting a young child e.g. no sleep, lack of spare time and big restrictions on my life. Win-win in my estimation, I've got the best of both worlds!
I know that will come across as weird to some. Fine with me.
I do think folk who end up having kids - perhaps just letting it happen for the sake of a relationship - and then not being particularly ecstatic with their situation are either: a bit careless, a bit lacking in aspiration, a bit crazy, or a bit unlucky. A not totally unknown scenario.
All said I completely get that for the majority of parents having children is genuinely the best thing that ever happened to them. But it isn't the only path.
Fiend Shark's decade-long inch warfare siege of Oak is hardly typical of the redpointing process.. He probably could have done 20 8as in that time had he not spent so many hundreds of days not climbing Oak and then been ready to up it to 8b this year for the same result... Ondra's advice of 10 days of attempts then sack it off and come back later is good advice I think.
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I do think folk who end up having kids - perhaps just letting it happen for the sake of a relationship - and then not being particularly ecstatic with their situation are either: a bit careless, a bit lacking in aspiration, a bit crazy, or a bit unlucky. A not totally unknown scenario.
Or possibly selfish? My 'neggo' post above comes from seeing climbing parents who in my view should spend a bit less time focussing on their climbing and more time engaging with their kids. Why does it bother me? Well, because they don't seem that happy. It's not easy getting the balance of course (hey, I'm going to Peru for 3 weeks this summer (work ::)), so I'm not exactly the model parent), but IMO a lot of frustration and angst comes from being too goal-orientated and that can impact negatively on both your partner and children. We all want to climb at a decent standard, but I'd rather have a happy family and not climb 8b+ than have a miserable family so that I can log Mecca on my scorecard (not directed at you petejh!). I have friends who are 'planning' to have kids, yet don't seem that interested as they're so focussed on their own ambitions. I wonder whether they should have them?! So, sorry if I'm lukewarm about the whole 'more psyched than I've ever been' since having kids vibe, as I personally don't see how it can be a positive thing.
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a bit careless, a bit lacking in aspiration, a bit crazy, or a bit unlucky
Or naive. It's hardly try before you buy is it?
I am not goal-orientated at all but the feeling of having limited control over your time and commitments is not an easy one to get used to.
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I do think folk who end up having kids - perhaps just letting it happen for the sake of a relationship - and then not being particularly ecstatic with their situation are either: a bit careless, a bit lacking in aspiration, a bit crazy, or a bit unlucky. A not totally unknown scenario.
Or possibly selfish? My 'neggo' post above comes from seeing climbing parents who in my view should spend a bit less time focussing on their climbing and more time engaging with their kids. Why does it bother me? Well, because they don't seem that happy. It's not easy getting the balance of course (hey, I'm going to Peru for 3 weeks this summer (work ::)), so I'm not exactly the model parent), but IMO a lot of frustration and angst comes from being too goal-orientated and that can impact negatively on both your partner and children. We all want to climb at a decent standard, but I'd rather have a happy family and not climb 8b+ than have a miserable family so that I can log Mecca on my scorecard (not directed at you petejh!). I have friends who are 'planning' to have kids, yet don't seem that interested as they're so focussed on their own ambitions. I wonder whether they should have them?! So, sorry if I'm lukewarm about the whole 'more psyched than I've ever been' since having kids vibe, as I personally don't see how it can be a positive thing.
So you're presuming someone like me doesn't spend enough time with my kids and that I have an un-happy family because I'm focused on something that I enjoy doing as well as having a family?
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Doubt it Luke, I think TB's thinking of some folk closer to where he's based who perhaps obsess over ticking something at Malham or the Tor perhaps at the expense of enjoying their parenthood to a fuller extent.
It's totally fine to ignore your kids for N.Wales Lime..
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Split please.
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In the interests of balance I think it's worth pointing out that it is possible to be childless and really shit at climbing
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Hey.
I'd say from Nai's post regarding having a child and climbing stronger, but then I've seen that there are other posts on training and not on kids, so maybe it's not feasible.
Anyway, if someone else likes to discuss the kids/climbing stronger issue maybe it's worth.
Cheers anyway.
Oh, and go bouldering.
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Technical grade for the split? And would it be easier without offspring?
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Re kids- from what I gather the crucial thing is living close to crags. Having said that I try to sit on the microwave when I can and keep my mobile in my pocket.
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. Ondra's advice of 10 days of attempts then sack it off and come back later is good advice I think.
I don't. There wouldn't be many hard routes in Wales or the Uk if people stopped at ten days. It's easy for Ondra to say, he can climb 9b in 3.
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Did anyone read Tom Randall's thing in climber? I don't think he is neglecting his kids. You have to rest some time...
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Re kids- from what I gather the crucial thing is living close to crags. Having said that I try to sit on the microwave when I can and keep my mobile in my pocket.
The ability to mentally picture Margaret Thatcher at important moments has the requisite effect too...
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Feel the need to throw a female perspective in to the whole children and climbing debate...
Firstly, for us as a family both parents are keen to get out and little one loves being outside so that makes life easier. Days out have been shorter during the winter but now it's warming up we're staying out longer.
The really interesting thing for me is that despite going through the physical changes of pregnancy and having a c section, I'm climbing better than ever! Many of the reasons discussed above apply but the big thing for me I think is my mental state - my ability to try hard, engage my core and trust my feet.
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I appear to be treading water adequately despite having 4 kids and marching into my forties . I think this is down to always seeking lines rather than grades, having lots of rock close by, and being fairly motivated. It also helps that my three boys are monsters and their general wrangling provides me with more than adequate core and strength training
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. Ondra's advice of 10 days of attempts then sack it off and come back later is good advice I think.
I don't. There wouldn't be many hard routes in Wales or the Uk if people stopped at ten days. It's easy for Ondra to say, he can climb 9b in 3.
Which bit of the come back later part..
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Perfectly possible to climb harder after having kids, if some or more of the following are true, the more the better:
- you don't leave having kids till you're relatively old Kids at 31 and 33
- you weren't some kind of child prodigy who peaked at 17 and then slid downhill. Check
- you climbed/trained/ate in a lackadaisical fashion before kids, and can be more focussed/methodical afterwards. Check
- reasonably understanding other half, or at least not be a completely pussywhipped motherfucker. Check
- not have a job that requires you work a ridiculous number of hours a week/evenings/weekends. Hmm, bit of a fail. Better than it used to be, so I do sometimes get out after work in the summer, but could be better.
- have got good local crags. Check
- go bouldering a lot. Just about a pass, I boulder quite a lot, but less than when I lived near the Peak.
- be prepared to go out on your own a lot, often at unsociable times. I was out on my own with a headtorch at 11am last night.
- have some mates in a similar boat, mutual motivation. Check
- have absolutely no interest in participating in any other sports, especially cycling. Check
8.5 is pretty encouraging - and I have certainly climbed my hardest since having kids.
However, there is also an uncomfortable amount of truth in TB's post. I certainly feel guilty sometimes that I am spending too much time away from the family, and it's getting harder. I have questioned whether it's worth it when I've walked out of the door with my 2 year old daughter saying "I don't want you to go climbing today Daddy". Climbing keeps me sane though, and I find it hard to accept the idea of just pottering about occasionally and not climbing as hard as I want to.
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I have friends who are 'planning' to have kids, yet don't seem that interested as they're so focussed on their own ambitions. I wonder whether they should have them?! So, sorry if I'm lukewarm about the whole 'more psyched than I've ever been' since having kids vibe, as I personally don't see how it can be a positive thing.
And yet you seemed to be recommending the prospect to myself? I'm finding the reality of a dog to look after hard to stomach on certain days let alone children!
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I think when the kids are either very young or old enough to join you, having relatively safe crags to take them to that don't involve either vertical grass, abseils, awkward downclimbing, long walks or deep cold sea nearby (ie not Aberdeenshire) are all positives.
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I think when the kids are ... old enough to join you,
This an aspect not to forget. I've started my twelve year old's belay bunny / rope gun training, although it might be a few years until it really pays off. At the moment he's really only motivated for indoor bouldering, but it's a start at least.
Papa Ondra seems to have been able to progress via use of his kids as rope guns / coaches; I imagine Hazel's dad could get himself dragged up anything he took a fancy to as well.
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I had kids late, number one came along when I was 35 and at first it spurred me to give up the the obsessive and very dangerous diving that I was into at the time (that and a very near miss at the six month pregnant mark). That initially impelled me into obsessive work/career/responsibility type stuff.
That made me fat, bored, depressed and dragged me further from my family than the thrill seeking ever did.
The imminent arrival of kid number 2, when number one reached an "interesting" age (3), led to some soul searching and quickly to abandoning career/security for dreamed of freedom and throwing myself back into climbing (after a ~10 year hiatus).
Being me, it quickly became obsessive (a familiar aspect of my life). Within months I was back climbing at my best, the level of my 20's. Almost exclusively bouldering (because I was flitting between Italy, Spain, Swiss, France, Greece and Turkey) and family got neglected again.
So, you all know about the cancer and the paradigm shift that brought about.
So, now I own a climbing wall, have four kids under 11, have got a bit fat again and reached my 45th year.
I find my personal ambitions have moderated. I spend far more time trying to make my kids life interesting. Biking, kayaking, snorkelling (diving soon!), climbing etc etc etc...
And, it's great.
I managed to get back into shape since xmas. Lost 8kg (6 to go) and got strong again, started climbing again (ish) but, I still have no need to find a project to obsess over. Possibly that might change. But frankly, I've already achieved a shitload in my life; I have no need to regret (well, a couple of expeditions that failed to yield our objective, but that's life).
So, for me, I now want to help my kids, and others, find their adventure. Spend time Guiding for them, instead of rich arseholes or fuckwit politicians. Build things for them to play/train on, instead of feeding some silverspooned wanker's ego.
I've always been impressed by the achievements of those who post here, I'm pretty sure that even the most punterish is operating on the 90th centile (and I see all sorts of climbers, every day). Seriously impressed that Shark is still butting heads with the Oak, for instance.
Those who manage to get better, despite kids, work, injury, age degeneration, battling bulges et al. Fucking hero's!
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I have never known climbing with out kids! By the age of 21 I had two girls (one genetically mine and one not) and they were one of the main reasons I got into bouldering over trad (which was what the guys I got into climbing with wanted to do). I split up with their mum when the youngest was 2 and have been a weekend dad ever since. have a great relationship with both of them and never treated them any different.
I have never climbed hard but have always properly loved it!
I now have a 24 year old (engaged, assistant manager, lives with her fella, see her every other week on average) an 18 year old (doing A-Levels, Uni in September, see her quite often) and now married I have a step son of 7. He goes to his (bellend) dad every other weekend and as the missus climbs we (theoretically) have 3/4 days a month to get out. This suits me and neither my wife or I have any desire to have any more kids.
Eldest child never enjoyed climbing but enjoys getting out and joins is for walks etc, middle child climbs on occasion and the munchkin climbs fairly regularly (I say climbs, what I mean here is that he enjoys throwing himself off things). They are generally happy and make me proud, we put a lot of effort into ensuring we are always there for them and as Matt said, try and make life interesting!
Not sure how to link this to other people's experiences but I have always managed to fit fishing and climbing around family commitments, the key being to not be a selfish twat and to put the effort in with household chores and managing responsibilities properly....
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Yeah but has your fishing standard changed since kids?
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Nah, he's still shit.
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I'm definitely at the punter end of bouldering but have three wonderful daughters, aged 11 and 2 and 2 (AKA my toxic twins). It is, of course, all relative but my eldest got me into climbing in the first place and my grade aim when the twins arrived I got a couple of months after they were born.
As others have said, it truly focusses your climbing so that when you get chance to go or to train you really just get on with it, no faffing around, your time is limited and you have purpose. And every minute counts so if you plan properly the spare time you get is consumed by specific training.
As for lack of sleep, remember pain is temporary. :jab:
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I had my daughter aged 38 and although I live no where near any climbing it didn't restrict things. I just had to be structured stick to certain days to climb and train, also having a home board was a godsend.
I stopped for a few years due to being injured and got back into cycle racing. I only started again because my daughter kept nagging me to take her to the wall. I would belay her up a few routes then boulder for 30 mins while she went off and made a nuisance of her self in the shop. and repeat till we'd had enough.
She stopped at that age when it isn't cool to do stuff with your dad.
I now have a grandson aged 22 months and already I am being encouraged to take him climbing as soon as he's old enough.
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. Ondra's advice of 10 days of attempts then sack it off and come back later is good advice I think.
I don't. There wouldn't be many hard routes in Wales or the Uk if people stopped at ten days. It's easy for Ondra to say, he can climb 9b in 3.
Which bit of the come back later part..
Nah stupid idea. 20 days maybe..
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Who to listen to: Moon and Ondra versus you and Shark... :-\
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I live in Wales so only listen to Pete Robins.
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There's a difference between 20 days and 8 years you know :lol:
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Who to listen to: Moon and Ondra versus you and Shark... :-\
Visionaries are rarely appreciated in their time
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You tell him Shark
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Who to listen to: Moon and Ondra versus you and Shark... :-\
Visionaries are rarely appreciated in their time
23:02 by my watch.
Eh?
What'd ya say?
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Who to listen to: Moon and Ondra versus you and Shark... :-\
Visionaries are rarely appreciated in their time
But you've long since had your time...
;)
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Can you not just strap the baby to you when you're deadhanging and as the baby grows you also get stronger??
http://vimeo.com/45600726
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I do think folk who end up having kids - perhaps just letting it happen for the sake of a relationship - and then not being particularly ecstatic with their situation are either: a bit careless, a bit lacking in aspiration, a bit crazy, or a bit unlucky.
Or they could be considered to some extent selfless in helping someone they have already spent a significant proportion of their life with achieve something that they want rather than calling an end to the relationship and pursuing their own aspirations selfish interests.
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Don't disagree with you about relationships.
There are countless other ways of being selfless without parenting a child however.
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Parenting is more than just genetics.
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Don't disagree with you about relationships.
There are countless other ways of being selfless without parenting a child however.
Yes I donated blood last week.
But when it comes to having children then as a male you can bend over backwards for a female you're in a relationship with and not have children but if her biological clock is ticking and she wants kids there is a high chance they will look elsewhere to achieve what they want and if not they would have to be as selfless as they were hoping you would be to not resent you for selfishly refusing to help them.
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There's something about the idea of bringing an entire new person into the world out of a sense of obligation, rather than actual desirem that makes me distinctly nervous. If one's aims in life diverge in such a crucial way from those of one's partner, maybe looking elsewhere is better for both?
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There's something about the idea of bringing an entire new person into the world out of a sense of obligation, rather than actual desirem that makes me distinctly nervous. If one's aims in life diverge in such a crucial way from those of one's partner, maybe looking elsewhere is better for both?
I didn't write that it was an obligation though, I wrote that it might be a selfless act to help someone you love.
Some will go their own separate ways.
Others will choose to stay with and help the person they love.
Neither choices are "careless, lacking in aspiration, crazy or unlucky" though because the decision will have been given a large amount of consideration before being made and to suggest so is in my opinion incredibly glib.
There is also the possibility that despite having no previous desire to have children they may grow on you (both literally and figuratively) although this is obviously an unknown and you may end up leaving your partner to care for the child they want on their own or with another partner.
Pete has already described some aspects of this and from what little he has written it sounds as though he's not someone who wanted children of his own for whatever reasons are known only to him, but having now spent some time with someone else's see's some of the positives aspects they have.
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Indeed, it just occurred to me that your partner's needs pale into insignificance next to those of a person for whose life you'll be wholly responsible. That it might grow on me after the fact isn't a gamble I'd willingly make. I'm not really trying to make a point, just thinking out loud into an interesting thread.
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There's something about the idea of bringing an entire new person into the world out of a sense of obligation, , rather than actual desirem that makes me distinctly nervous.
This reads as though you are suggesting the obligation is to the partner you are choosing to help.
Indeed, it just occurred to me that your partner's needs pale into insignificance next to those of a person for whose life you'll be wholly responsible.
Except you are not wholly responsible for that persons life, you and your partner are and you work together to nurture and protect them.
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This reads as though you are suggesting the obligation is to the partner you are choosing to help.
Well, if you yourself didn't actively want to have children, that's the motivating factor, no? I wouldn't be comfortable fathering a child I didn't REALLY want to please someone else, personally. It's just too big a deal to mess with someone's life like that.
Except you are not wholly responsible for that persons life, you and your partner are and you work together to nurture and protect them.
I think you've read "solely" instead, here. You are wholly responsible for something if it's entirely within your power to prevent it, in my book.
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There's something about the idea of bringing an entire new person into the world out of a sense of obligation, rather than actual desirem that makes me distinctly nervous. If one's aims in life diverge in such a crucial way from those of one's partner, maybe looking elsewhere is better for both?
I didn't write that it was an obligation though, I wrote that it might be a selfless act to help someone you love.
Some will go their own separate ways.
Others will choose to stay with and help the person they love.
Neither choices are "careless, lacking in aspiration, crazy or unlucky" though because the decision will have been given a large amount of consideration before being made and to suggest so is in my opinion incredibly glib.
In a perfect world I'd agree with you, but the world is populated in the main by people who don't act as logically as you do.
My decisions were based on age. I would have liked my own kids when I was younger but never met the right person to have them with. Now I'm older I don't want kids. I'm very happy being with a partner and her 10-year old. I don't regret having missed the 0-10 years one bit - sleepless nights and time restrictions at my age when I've got my own good life going on? No thanks. Fairly straightforward.
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Pete how long have you had this partner? You've only just started mentioning her, and you're doing it quite a lot it seems. So to me it looks like you've not been with her long but the way you talk about other things it's like you've been with her years. You don't see her regularly it doesn't seem like and you also said her kids 10 yet you don't mind not being there for the first 10 years. This begs quite a few questions tbh. The main one being how do you know anything about what you're talking about?
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This reads as though you are suggesting the obligation is to the partner you are choosing to help.
Well, if you yourself didn't actively want to have children, that's the motivating factor, no?
Yes but you then wrote...
it just occurred to me that your partner's needs pale into insignificance next to those of a person for whose life you'll be wholly responsible.
...which is another obligation and the two seemed to be becoming muddled in your writing.
I think you've read "solely" instead, here. You are wholly responsible for something if it's entirely within your power to prevent it, in my book.
No, I read what you wrote. I've highlighted the word above for clarity and as I wrote you and your partner are wholly responsible.
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Ah, I see. I meant that your obligation to your partner isn't as important as your obligation to your potential child.
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Ah, I see. I meant that your obligation to your partner isn't as important as your obligation to your potential child.
They're not mutually exclusive and are heavily inter-twinned though.
Neither choices are "careless, lacking in aspiration, crazy or unlucky" though because the decision will have been given a large amount of consideration before being made and to suggest so is in my opinion incredibly glib.
In a perfect world I'd agree with you, but the world is populated in the main by people who don't act as logically as you do.
Indeed, many act based on biological instinct but that doesn't mean that they are any or all of the things you are suggesting they are.
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Pete how long have you had this partner? You've only just started mentioning her, and you're doing it quite a lot it seems. So to me it looks like you've not been with her long but the way you talk about other things it's like you've been with her years. You don't see her regularly it doesn't seem like and you also said her kids 10 yet you don't mind not being there for the first 10 years. This begs quite a few questions tbh. The main one being how do you know anything about what you're talking about?
Haha.. well because my partner prior to my current one (who I've only been seeing since December) also had kids of a similar age.
How long do I need before I'm qualified to form a valid point about the pros/cons of not having children, in your opinion?
And you messed up using 'begging the question' in the context you did - it does't mean what you think it does, which was 'raises a few questions'. It actually means to make a statement or argument assuming the conclusion to be true from the outset without any other evidence other than the original statement. Which is quite apt really seeing as that's your standard modus operandi on here! :tease:
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Neither choices are "careless, lacking in aspiration, crazy or unlucky" though because the decision will have been given a large amount of consideration before being made and to suggest so is in my opinion incredibly glib.
In a perfect world I'd agree with you, but the world is populated in the main by people who don't act as logically as you do.
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Indeed, many act based on biological instinct but that doesn't mean that they are any or all of the things you are suggesting they are.
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Well it needn't be, but it could be a careless act, don't you agree?
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It could be but I don't considered it to be. Humans are not that far removed from other animals. I'd love to be proven otherwise but look at all the fighting that still goes on around the world.
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1: Having kids never feels/is/works out/looks the way you think it will.
2: Sometimes you want kids, sometimes you don't.
3: Sometimes, when you don't, you wish you did; when you do, you wish you didn't (at least for an hour or two).
4: Having kids can make you pine for the freedom of singledom, not having kids can make you pine for the joys of parenthood.
5: You get the idea.
6: Your life is what it is. You make choices, it changes; you can't change it back.
7: You will never really understand the infinite number of variables that bare upon the decisions of even your closest friends and loved ones. I think it's probably best not to try, if you can. I rather wish I could be better at the whole accepting/not judging thing...
IMO.
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