31

shootin' the shit / Re: UK General Election 2024

« Last post by monkoffunk on Today at 12:33:19 pm »

In what sense?

32

shootin' the shit / Re: UK General Election 2024

« Last post by ToxicBilberry on Today at 12:23:48 pm »

He is describing the status quo

33

shootin' the shit / Re: UK General Election 2024

« Last post by monkoffunk on Today at 12:01:56 pm »

Do we want to be run by a Party built top down by a tiny band of people who have got there by lying and are mostly preoccupied with their own empowerment. It's not clear to me what their general policy aims are even (I guess they're hawkish on foreign policy but other than that I have no idea).

Out of context you’d be forgiven for thinking you are describing the status quo, certainly that first part. The answer is surely not.

The Labour Party was designed to be built bottom up by trade unionists and people who chose to be members and volunteers.

The NEC has a wide range of representation (officers from the leadership, CLP representatives, trade union representatives, etc) 36 out of 39 are elected by their constituencies to make decisions on behalf of eligible voters on governance. This allows some, but not total, central control of a national party in a democratic fashion.

A situation where a CLP could elect anybody to be the candidate without any kind of broader oversight is simply nonsense for obvious reasons.

34

shootin' the shit / Re: UK General Election 2024

« Last post by ToxicBilberry on Today at 12:00:33 pm »

Faiza Shaheen had support from and had been selected by her CLP.

Do we want to be run by a Party built top down by a tiny band of people who have got there by lying and are mostly preoccupied with their own empowerment. It's not clear to me what their general policy aims are even (I guess they're hawkish on foreign policy but other than that I have no idea).

The Labour Party was designed to be built bottom up by trade unionists and people who chose to be members and volunteers.

It’s exactly this Stone, they don’t want her in parliament due to pro Palestine views seen as potentially destabilising both internally and with the wider public who’s perception is that everything that ‘goes with’ more extreme left politics e.g. rapid cultural change, as having a detrimental affect on their lives.

35

shootin' the shit / Re: UK General Election 2024

« Last post by Will Hunt on Today at 11:44:43 am »

Lets look at the comparison and remember that at the end of the day it’s going to be a Tory or Labour government.

No it isn't. It's going to be a labour government. The only doubt is the size of their majority.

I don't think it's that clear cut yet. Polls always narrow towards election day. Definitely scope for a hung parliament or a slim enough majority to be a problem for Labour.

I don't see the candidate selection as being inept. I see it as being utterly ruthless factionalism. I think an element of it is performative. They want to reassure everyone that they have "permanently Changed Labour" -and deselecting a lefty economist is part of that.

Regarding Starmer not being at the centre of this is BS IMO. It is people from his leadership campaign who are doing this.

There's no real evidence for this view is there? Is John McDonnell standing? Surely if what you're saying is true then he would have been a prime target for deselection?

36

shootin' the shit / Re: UK General Election 2024

« Last post by spidermonkey09 on Today at 11:34:25 am »

Faiza Shaheen had support from and had been selected by her CLP.

Do we want to be run by a Party built top down by a tiny band of people who have got there by lying and are mostly preoccupied with their own empowerment. It's not clear to me what their general policy aims are even (I guess they're hawkish on foreign policy but other than that I have no idea).

I've explained above why I think an overreliance on members deciding national policy is mental. Obviously I don't want autocracy either, its a balancing act.

The Labour Party was designed to be built bottom up by trade unionists and people who chose to be members and volunteers.

The Labour party has not won an election for 19 years. Prior to 1997 it had not won for 17 years. I do not consider it controversial to think that whatever it was doing in those years was not working, so I'm happy enough to try a different model. as MoF said, for me there are bigger concerns right now than Labour internal politics.

37

shootin' the shit / Re: UK General Election 2024

« Last post by Duma on Today at 11:32:00 am »

I don't see the candidate selection as being inept. I see it as being utterly ruthless factionalism. I think an element of it is performative. They want to reassure everyone that they have "permanently Changed Labour" -and deselecting a lefty economist is part of that.

Regarding Starmer not being at the centre of this is BS IMO. It is people from his leadership campaign who are doing this. They have now been parachuted in as parliamentary candidates themselves at the last minute so as to bypass any CLP involvement in their own selection. https://www.thenational.scot/news/24355642.luke-akehurst-labour-pick-extremist-israel-lobbyist-safe-seat/

This.

38

shootin' the shit / Re: UK General Election 2024

« Last post by stone on Today at 11:28:55 am »

Faiza Shaheen had support from and had been selected by her CLP.

Do we want to be run by a Party built top down by a tiny band of people who have got there by lying and are mostly preoccupied with their own empowerment. It's not clear to me what their general policy aims are even (I guess they're hawkish on foreign policy but other than that I have no idea).

The Labour Party was designed to be built bottom up by trade unionists and people who chose to be members and volunteers.

39

shootin' the shit / Re: UK General Election 2024

« Last post by monkoffunk on Today at 11:07:18 am »

I don't see the candidate selection as being inept. I see it as being utterly ruthless factionalism. I think an element of it is performative. They want to reassure everyone that they have "permanently Changed Labour" -and deselecting a lefty economist is part of that.

Regarding Starmer not being at the centre of this is BS IMO. It is people from his leadership campaign who are doing this. They have now been parachuted in as parliamentary candidates themselves at the last minute so as to bypass any CLP involvement in their own selection. https://www.thenational.scot/news/24355642.luke-akehurst-labour-pick-extremist-israel-lobbyist-safe-seat/

I’m not under any illusion that it will be Starmer loyalists on the NEC who are going to be anti the left, but I don’t agree that the motivations here are pure factionalism and power play. The party needs to be electable to win and make any difference at all. My own politics doesn’t always align with the party leadership but I accept I’m further to the left than the average voter and the country does require a credible opposition. Making the party electable is necessary for credibility. Has everything been handled as it ‘should’ have been? I don’t think so. Is this going to stop me voting Labour? I think there are bigger concerns right now.

40

shootin' the shit / Re: UK General Election 2024

« Last post by spidermonkey09 on Today at 10:59:02 am »

There's a big difference between letting someone be in the party and trusting them to stand for parliament and be in the parliamentary party.

Abbott lost the whip for writing stupid things in the Observer and not running it by the press office. When she had the whip restored she got straight on the phone to the BBC to slag off the leadership during a GE campaign.

Party discipline, especially during campaigning, is really important. As much as Abbott may have some admirable qualities and achievements she's proven herself a liability.

This is correct imo. Abbott has also spent the last few weeks publicly slagging off Wes Streeting and the leadership on her Twitter account (still there). She also retweeted the Green candidate standing against Streeting in Ilford, who was saying that Streeting knew nothing about the NHS. That is not on at any time, but especially in an election campaign. That by itself for me is enough to stop her standing, but it hasn't really been in the news. I think theres a lot going on behind the scenes. I suspect Abbott is ready to retire and is getting some pretty poor advice from hangers on about standing again. She is visibly struggling which I find sad to see. It would be best for everyone if she took the initiative and stood down.

The Faiza Shaheen one I find harder to defend but I also find her position towards the seat, as if its her own and she has an entitlement to it, pretty annoying. Its not her seat, its a Tory seat currently. This is politics, nobody owes you anything. If you don't want to be bound by party collective responsibility and structure then you run as an independent. I am queasy about it being done so late when she is clearly vulnerable as a Muslim woman and new mother but ultimately thats politics. Corbyn was similarly ruthless with a couple of seat selections in 2019; what we're seeing from Starmer is an extension of that imo. Fwiw, the complaint that led to Lloyd Russell Moyle being stood down, which he claims is vexatious and factionally motivated, actually came from a leftist - someone removed from the party for antisemitism, according to PoliticsHome.