UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => get involved: access, environment, BMC => Topic started by: shark on February 03, 2016, 11:03:03 am
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Oh and to be honest I've never agreed with climbing in the dark in sensitive areas, or climbing in banned areas. Spoils it for everyone except the selfish person there doing the climbing. Maybe that's for another thread tho
Worth highlighting areas that are unsuitable for climbing at night due to sensitivity of access:
To my knowledge:
Roche Abbey
Rowtor
Craig Y Longridge
Others...
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the other place near Rubicon?
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the other place near Rubicon?
:-\ Parking is away from the village and it is as hidden as it gets down there. Cant see it being any more of an issue than during the day.
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X should be fine as it's not visible from anywhere.
eatswood would probably be unwise.
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I've thought about and decided not to climb at Rubicon before as it just feels a little too 'urban'. Maybe I'm being overly concerned, but I think it is slightly overlooked by some of the houses above?
I have no qualms going to X at night for the reasons stated above.
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Bits of Blackwell Dale on private land which are visible from the road (e.g. Blackout)?
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Secconded on eatswood. I opted not to go there the other day after realising that your lights can be seen.
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Tremeirchion, North Wales.
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Oops posted in other thread before seeing this. I agree eatswood is a bad idea.
Any small bouldering venue on private land where the access is an unknown and you are likely to be seen if night climbing, are a bad idea. Some examples - Filthy Q, Hilltop Boulder, Crich Tor, Black Garden, Leashaw Brow.
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When does night time begin? I wouldn't do this at sensitive crag but I'd go to a crag visible to houses like Rubicon or Curbar at 5 and leave around 7 in the winter. I'd feel bad climbing late in to the evening/night.
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It is lights that are the issue. If you need lights, its time to go home.
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Anyone know the deal with Broomgrove?
I guess you don't need a lamp in the dark, but would it be antisocial to go there at say 6.30/7pm in the winter when its dark?
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Once went at 1 am. Nobody called the police so probably ok
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It is lights that are the issue. If you need lights, its time to go home.
One of the better innovations IMO for the time starved and conditions hungry.
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Sure, although I'm inclined to think a list of suitable locations might be shorter.
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I've thought about and decided not to climb at Rubicon
wise words, I once went climbing there, total rubbish :whistle:
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It is lights that are the issue. If you need lights, its time to go home.
One of the better innovations IMO for the time starved and conditions hungry.
:agree:
Plenty of suitable venues
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It is lights that are the issue. If you need lights, its time to go training home.
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Interesting subject and needs to be discussed.
I think it boils down to a bit of common sense; if it doesn't feel right then thats probably a good indication as any. However, I think there are lots of venues that are suitable, especially the more urban crags or no privately owned, that already suffer from light pollution for instance Caley, Ilkley etc.
I would advise against climbing on open moorlands, as you will probabaly look like you are poaching!
I would be interested to know peoples opinions on a few things;
- Would it be best to turn your lights off when resting to reduce light pollution, or would lots of flashing on and off light be wrong?
- What effect do lights have on wildlife?
- Is it any different to MTB or running in the dark? Are there any restrictions associated with these activities?
- Groups sizes and amount of lights?
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It is lights that are the issue. If you need lights, its time to go training home on holiday.
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- Is it any different to MTB or running in the dark? Are there any restrictions associated with these activities?
Never thought about that, from years of doing night rides especially in large groups I've never come across anybody thats had any issues night riding, suppose if its a PROW then there aren't any time restrictions as to when you can ride on on them (besides Snowdon). There has been the odd farmer coming out to see what the mass of lights is but once they realise what it is theres no issue.
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Oh and to be honest I've never agreed with climbing in the dark in sensitive areas, or climbing in banned areas. Spoils it for everyone except the selfish person there doing the climbing. Maybe that's for another thread tho
Others...
I've been told off for night soloing at Stanage with a headtorch before (a few years ago) by a ranger. he did say he'd been about to contact mountain rescue, which is a valid point, though I guessed at the time it was probably just an exaggeration to try and dissuade me from doing it again because he thought it was a stupid thing to do.
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It doesn't take long to work out what a line of moving lights are: runners or bikes. And they'll be gone soon anyway.
A light static at the base of a crag is going to intrigue all but the tiny minority of folk in the know. The average landowner is going to assume either an accident, poaching/ sheep theft or camping, and bear in mind that camping is banned most places south of the Scottish border. Even at somewhere like Burbage (council owned, CRoW designated) camping is banned. The rangers around the Eastern Edges know what is going on now, but there was/is some consternation; if they ignore all lights they may be missing other goings on, inc accidents.
In less enlightened areas that information is going be harder to get across. And it's always going to be a fairly niche activity. And yes some landowners/ other users will be concerned about the effect on wildlife/game. I would argue it should be minimal - at the time of year most lamping is done the nights are long, birds are not nesting, plants are dormant, badgers etc semi-hibernating. But the opposite argument is easily made - NE's move to designate some of their nature reserves under CRoW was met with fierce opposition 'can't we leave ANY space just for nature?'
Most of peak limestone crags are on nature reserves, with access at most delicate. Crag X for example is in an area considered so important no access is permitted. We have negotiated low-key permissive access on very careful terms including not publicising it. I doubt very much that night climbing there is 'fine as it's not visible from anywhere'. If it's properly dark I'd be very surprised if a light in that normally pitch-dark valley wasn't obvious from the road.
In general urban fringe venues in public ownership should be fine, but I'd be wary about most others. And wherever you go don't be surprised to be challenged, be polite etc.
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In less enlightened areas...
;D
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I remember one of the farmers overlooking the Stride being frustrated by after-dark sessions, although also accepting of access rights. I've always steered clear out of respect, although I know the place is quite popular.
When the random chipping happened a while back, this and the massive evidence of chalk were the two things that came to mind first. In many ways the chalk is more of a problem (I remember seeing a post on an archaeological forum asking who was putting white graffiti on the stones at Cratcliffe), although I guess the use of lamps is another thing that can contribute to a general impression of climbers being antisocial.
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I had a few thoughts on the subject before
http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,18531
didn't really go anywhere
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www.thebmc.co.uk/night-climbing-bouldering-lantern-sessions-tips
Is bouldering at night the perfect time to try your long-time project? It's true that the lower temps can mean better friction, plus you won't have to queue up for rock, but are there any issues with climbing in the dark? We highlight what's best if you're planning on cragging at night.
There’s something special about being out in wild places at night, and sending that bouldering project you’ve been trying for months is always a bonus too. But we must not forget that as climbers we have to remember to act responsibly, else risk losing access to these areas both at night and in the day. To help light your way, we consider three things you might not have thought about but should be aware of, followed by our top tips for bouldering at night.
Three things to be wary of
1. Visibility is vulnerability
As Peak Area access stalwart Henry Folkard is fond of saying: “To be visible is to be vulnerable.”
It’s much more conspicuous to boulder at night with head-torches, lanterns and other lights – way more than when climbing during the day. To maintain our access to these areas at all times, we have to be a little more considerate than normal.
At night, lights can be seen from a considerable distance and noise carries much further, which can easily draw a lot of attention to you. Take the hypothetical example of a venue located outside of access land where low-key climbing happens but isn’t known about by the landowner. A visit at night with bright lights is much more likely to be noticed and could easily result in an access ban.
This caution can even be necessary at venues with well-established access. Night bouldering is a fairly unusual activity, especially when looked at from a non-climber’s perspective, and can arouse suspicion in the general public, landowners and authorities.
The general advice is to keep things as low-key as possible and try not to disturb anybody. In particular, venues that are close to or in view of someone’s house are best avoided.
2. Wildlife needs sleep too
If we’re climbing round-the-clock, we’re putting additional pressure on our countryside. And from a conservation perspective, we might be disturbing a number of natural habitats and the fauna that live in them; it’s a growing concern among land managers.
For instance, birds might be roosting in or around the areas we use for climbing, and the reduction of normal quiet periods can disturb these and other types of animals’ routine. Of particular concern is night-time activity during the bird breeding season between March and July.
As with day-time activity, it is also important to take account of any restrictions that might be in place. Remember to check for access issues on the BMC Regional Access Database (RAD) before you go and also take care to check for signs on-site with access warnings.
3. A case of mistaken identity
There are many reasons why authorities or even passers-by might mistake your intent when night-bouldering, so don’t be surprised if you’re confronted.
In upland areas, livestock rustling (whilst not an everyday occurrence) is still a significant problem. This means farmers, rangers and rural policemen could take more of an interest in a group of people out on a moor with bright lights than you might expect.
Meanwhile, wild camping and the resulting mess left by poorly-behaved groups is an issue in other areas. And stationary lights on a crag after dark might also make a kind-hearted passer-by wonder if an accident has occurred and call emergency services.
Our eight tips for responsible night climbing:
1. Choose wisely
Think about whether your intended venue is really suitable for a visit during the hours of darkness. Are there any access issues (check our Regional Access Database), will you disturb anyone on the walk to the crag, is there potential for people/farmers to think you’re up to no good? If there’s a chance that you’ll be worrying people or disturbing their night, there might be a better choice of crag to visit; is it worth the risk of compromising already shaky access?
2. Head-torches only on walk-in
Keep your big lights off during the walk in to keep disturbance to a minimum. It also reduces the impact you’ll be making on wildlife and livestock. Remember, most people and a lot of animals like to sleep during the night, so try to avoid waking anything up.
3. Direct your light
Try to keep your light pollution to a minimum. By that, we mean not needlessly waving around torches – instead direct your lanterns onto the rock and away from houses, turn off lights if you’re not climbing, potentially use red light as it doesn’t travel as far.
4. Forget fuel if you can
Take LED lamps – the technology is cheap these days and will give you hours of light if used correctly. If you only have a gas or fuel-burning lamp, just make sure that it’s either hung from a secure stand or placed on a non-flammable bit of countryside (like a rock!) to mitigate the risk of starting a fire.
5. Remember rubbish
It’s easy to lose things at night and rubbish is no exception. Pack away your rubbish before you forget where you put it or you’ll be leaving a mess for the wildlife to get into.
6. Extra vigilance
Remember that climbing at night is totally different. You have to be extra cautious when spotting, topping out, down climbing, walking out, or even just when wandering out of the light. Be extra careful to avoid any unfortunate accidents that are always more complicated to deal with in the dark.
7. Careful whispers
Noise carries further in the dark, so try not to carelessly shout when egging on your mates or if you’ve just topped out your project. Remember, with night climbing you’re trying to keep a low profile and avoid having anyone know you’re out there.
8. Fun times
Lantern sessions will always be very limited by the scarcity of suitable venues, problems or even conditions, but the key is to think through your plans before you head out and consider if any of the issues highlighted might apply to your choice of venue. Once you’ve settled on a good option, remember you’ll likely draw at least a little attention, so behave responsibly, keep noise to a minimum, and most importantly have fun!
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I assume Anston Stones Wood is off the cards (at least until the leaves have grown back in the spring). Has anyone any experience doing night sessions here? Is it easy to keep a low profile at the right time of year?
Is the access situation still pretty unknown?
I struggle to find it on the RAD.
I was thinking of using Forest Rock instead for night sessions for the time being (considering I have to be somewhere north within 1hr40 from Cambridgeshire).
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I'd have thought Forest Rock would be a bad idea due to the already-strained relationships with the neighbours.
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Ah, I didn't know about a strained relationship with the neighbors.
It did look like a place that is fairly easy the stay under the radar if in the back of the cave.
And I am sure I have seen videos of people climbing there at night...
Anyway, if its a bad idea maybe I will avoid it.
Any good suggestions?
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I assume Anston Stones Wood is off the cards (at least until the leaves have grown back in the spring). Has anyone any experience doing night sessions here? Is it easy to keep a low profile at the right time of year?
I've only been once, but I think Anston would probably be okay actually. It's a way from any houses, and the road and railway are so close flashing lights are the norm and will probably drown out any noise.
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Lantern sessions at Anston would probably keep local skutters away from lighting fires and necking cans of redstripe, so would probably be welcomed.
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The other perturbing factor for thinking Anstons might be sensitive to night sessions was this:
I think this is an important point. Night climbing at places like Anston Stones and Roche Abbey I don't think is a great idea. Access is improving in these areas and to a lot of folks Climbing at night with lights is classed as the same kind of nuisense behaviour as fire lighting etc.
And holding the proper amount of respect for Dolph and all his/crews hard work, there is probably a good reason for thinking about the suitability of Anston in particular as a night venue in its current state (and wanting to know a little more about the access). In the case of a place with unknown/flakey access like this, super low profile may be an important priority (both for wanting to keep climbing available there, and not wanting to get beset upon by the local youths).
In which case, where is the balance?
Going out on my lonesome may not draw too much unwanted attention, but imagine if a Sheffield based university club had some great idea like having a social out there...
Some specific guidelines from a supervising body on their official position with regards to night bouldering activities might be useful if anyone has to approach any meaningful discussion with proprietors/land owners (to complement the friendly do's and don'ts article provided).
What do you think? :worms:
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Some specific guidelines from a supervising body on their official position with regards to night bouldering activities might be useful
Isn't that what Shark has copy and pasted from The BMC? :shrug:
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I'd have thought Forest Rock would be a bad idea due to the already-strained relationships with the neighbours.
Iamp session here have not been a problem. The main thing is to keep noise down to a minimum, I'd probably avoid using light at the entrance but further in nobody can see anything.I've had some good night sessions here.
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Once again a clear case for the for and against lamp sessions at dodgy access venues. It seems that at Anston it's a bad idea to climb with lamps due to access issues progressing unless you fancy climbing at night using lamps were its a good idea since it might keep Chavs away and the train will mask any noise. However the situation is even more clear cut at forest rock where the neighbours don't want you there anyway so climbing at night is a very bad idea unless you actually wanted to climb at night when it's a very good idea since no one can see the lights if you go far enough into the cave. Hope that clears it up for most people
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This is the same I've posted on relevant facebook groups but...
Does anyone know what the current access issues are at Almscliff with regards to climbing with lamps in the dark? We were climbing near the virgin boulder when someone drove up the field and starting telling us to "clear off", stating that it was private land and we weren't allowed to climb in the dark, the terms "private rocks" and "health and safety hazards" were used, although he wouldn't confirm whether he owned the land. Furthermore he threatened to take note of our licence plates and tell the police. He also threatened to call the police if he catches people there in the future.
:'(
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Hmm that sounds like a change in attitude. The farmer gets pissed off with yoofs going up there and boozing/smoking but i thought was ok with climbers. Maybe this is one for the BMC to investigate... iirc it is private land but there are several rights of way across it....
I've chatted to the farmer (4-5 years ago) several times (in the daytime) when he's been fixing his walls and he's always seemed like a decent fella. Maybe it's someone new, or something has happened to change his views... :-/
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Telling the police is an empty threat; trespass is a civil tort not a criminal offence. I would suggest dropping an email to Rob Dyer at the BMC as if there are such limitations on access they need to be understood and circulated. I've climbed up there in the dark a couple of times but a long time ago.
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I should have included that he mentioned that someone recently broke there leg there, I'm assuming at night time, and they had to get mountain rescue in. So I suspect that's probably what started it.
I must have averaged about 20 lamp sessions a year at the cliff over the past few years.
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Everytime I see this thread title I think "Every crag". I know I'm getting older and I don't live close to any climbing anymore so I'm not remotely qualified to comment and I used to go running on the moors with DPFR with a head torch which you could argue is the same thing - although we were moving so had a limited impact in any place at any one time. The BMC guidelines are good but not firm enough and from a distance I think night climbing is always going to jeopardise access anywhere. Go to the wall, train on a fingerboard and go climbing in the day IMHO...
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For many people, going climbing at night after work is the only time they can actually go climbing. It seems unfair to suggest that people avoid climbing at night completely when it is such an important part of people's lives, and there are crags to which access is so unlikely to become restricted as a result of people climbing there in the dark. Surely it makes sense for people just to stick to the crags with less sensitive access.
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I think the whole key to respectful night climbing is visibility. The general public and landowers aren't used to it, and the default response is going to be to assume that folk are up to no good. So you need to go somewhere that ideally is not too visible or prominent from roads, houses, etc. The further away you can be seen from, the more likely you are to get problems. Obviously anything not on publicly accessible land also has the potential to be problematic. The longer you are in one place, the later it is, the more noise you make, the brighter your lights, the more chance for problems.
Examples of places it's less likely to cause problems are like Stanage, Secret Garden, Stoney, Turningstone or Burbage where there is relatively busy public access, the land management are used to climbers being there, it's not close to houses, and most lamp activities are to some extent obscured from roads due to other boulders, trees, or remoteness. Also some places like this have other night users like runners and mountain bikers, so you don't stick out too far.
Places it's going to be unwise are stuff near dwellings (trackside, rubicon), banned crags with some visibility (eatswood), sensitive access crags (squirrel buttress, half of blackwell dale, possibly Anston), crags very visible for miles around (possibly almscliff), new crags where landowners are not used to climbers etc etc.
Basically do your research and use a bit of common sense.
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Everytime I see this thread title I think "Every crag". I know I'm getting older and I don't live close to any climbing anymore so I'm not remotely qualified to comment
I think things have changed a great deal (maybe partly to how good headtorches/lights are now?). Outdoor sports have way more participants and people are desperate to get outdoors whenever they can, as they're so time pressured. There are loads of people/sports/events that use the outdoors at night. This just popped up a minute ago on my Twitter feed http://www.thenightrunner.com/night-runner/rivington-night-runner-14-january-2017.html
Last night I saw a Peloton of 20+ roadies all with incredibly bright lights, mountain bikers, runners, boulderers and cavers.. all out and about. The Peak is very active in the evening at this time of year. If you choose your venue carefully, I don't think you're risking access. That said, maybe a symbol and some blurb in future bouldering guides would be helpful?
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You could see four or five parties from the road at the cliff last night, it was quite ridiculous. You could even see the place lit up from Gravelly Hill Lane, which is over a mile away.
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I should stress that his main concern was with people hurting themselves at night time. I was under the impression he thought climbing at night was too dangerous. There was no mention of light pollution being an issue or anything like that.
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Good responses Dave and TB. You both have ample enough experience to know how and where to go night bouldering. I used to love running at night on the moors back in t'day and it's a great feeling to be out doing something mid-week that you would normally associate with a weekend only activity.
BS04, I don't buy that for "many" people, night-time is the only time to go climbing. What did the "many" do before night bouldering became an option? We went climbing at weekends when we weren't at work/college and trained indoors (or a floodlit brick edge) on dark evenings.
I think my unease stems from night bouldering perhaps becoming the new-normal with the events at Almscliff perhaps illustrating what might be more common in future? Or, maybe it's just sour grapes on my part lovely grit conditions in West London today...
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BS04, I don't buy that for "many" people, night-time is the only time to go climbing.
Why not? It's easy to imagine a scenario in which someone can only get out on real rock on midweek evenings.
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someone != many
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Why not? It's easy to imagine a plethora of scenarios in which someone can only get out on real rock on midweek evenings.
better?
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That makes no difference to what FD is questioning which is that night climbing is the only time to go climbing [outdoors] for many people as B0405413 wrote.
For some people this may be the case but probably not for many.
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Rather than forming the argument around the notion of the requirement to go bouldering at night, I think it would be more productive to work on the assumption that climbers should continue to take access responsibly where it is reasonable for them to do so.
Since Almscliff is privately owned and is in close proximity to houses I'm not convinced it quite fits the bill. One or two discrete sets of lamps on occasion might not bother the farmer but if large sections of the crags are lit up, with the accompanying traffic going up and down the road after hours, I can see why this might bug him. He might just be using the "worried about people injuring themselves" argument as a way of saying that he's uneasy about a load of strangers hanging around in his field at night.
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B0405413's post doesn't change whether you say "for some" or "for many", especially when discussing lamp sessions at a crag where you could argue one person is too many...
Let's stop with the semantics :sorry:
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(Hat tip to Stubbs) BMC latest.
No lamping at Cliff please.
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/ViewCrag.aspx?id=465
Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
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No lamping at Cliff please.
I think that hitting anyone at any crag is actively discouraged.
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No lamping at Cliff please.
I think that hitting anyone at any crag is actively discouraged.
In West Wales Lamping meant driving around in a Land Rover with a sodium light shooting badgers/foxes at night...
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Yeah right. You used it to blind sheep to stop them running way while you sneak up from behind with your velcro gloves.
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If you're out on a night like this it'll be cold lampin'.
(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/BQOY9pl.ddNn8bJKMZUmpQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NjMwO2g9MzU0O2lsPXBsYW5l/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/ymusic-hip-hop-media-training/3f478aa2-13c0-4177-bbd1-9e70ee2a89ad_public-enemy-Al-Pereira-Michael-Ochs-Archives-1988.jpg)
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Yeah right. You used it to blind sheep to stop them running way while you sneak up from behind with your velcro gloves.
That'd spoil the fun....
Foxes/badgers can't see the light from a sodium light...
scared the shit out of me the first time I saw it, couple of good ol' boys with guns on the back of a landrover outside my house...
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In West Wales Lamping meant driving around in a Land Rover with a sodium light shooting badgers/foxes at night...
It means the same in all rural areas.
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It is lights that are the issue. If you need lights, its time to go home.
I'm tempted to agree with the simplicity of this argument. I know the Eastern Moors rangers are a bit concerned by seeing static lights on the rocks at any given time and in times of sensitive access issues in many areas, creating new ones seems to be a bit inane to me.
Respecting the environment and access isn't bringing further problems to the table, when access agreements and management plans for places such as Stanage are pretty uncertain.
As climbers we've done so much good work for access and we can just as easily undo it all too, if we are not careful.
To quote Henry Folkard again - it's 'Ours to protect'
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It is lights that are the issue. If you need lights, its time to go home.
I'm tempted to agree with the simplicity of this argument. I know the Eastern Moors rangers are a bit concerned by seeing static lights on the rocks at any given time and in times of sensitive access issues in many areas, creating new ones seems to be a bit inane to me.
Respecting the environment and access isn't bringing further problems to the table, when access agreements and management plans for places such as Stanage are pretty uncertain.
As climbers we've done so much good work for access and we can just as easily undo it all too, if we are not careful.
To quote Henry Folkard again - it's 'Ours to protect'
And there is also being over-sensitive. If it's truly problematic I'm sure we will get to hear about it from Henry. Sometimes you have to kick back rather than give in straight away. Immediately rolling over second guessing what might be an issue is a bit lame when mountain bikers and runners are lighting up the moors. Lamping is a potential game changer for the midweek evening boulderer
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(Hat tip to Stubbs) BMC latest.
No lamping at Cliff please.
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/ViewCrag.aspx?id=465
Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
Not been up there (at night) recently but realistically, how many of the "lamping crews" are likely to take notice of this advice from the BMC?
I have been up there with lights many moons ago (camping gaz lantern + MTB light), but having seen multiple groups lighting the place up like a film set in the recent past I would agree with the sentiment that it is a pretty antisocial activity in terms of others' enjoyment of the outdoors at night. My argument would be that a couple of headtorches plus moderate powered directed spot would be acceptable but these folks are going full on overkill with their lighting set-ups.
Light pollution is a thing and not only in terms of blotting out the stars. :popcorn:
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Yeah right. You used it to blind sheep to stop them running way while you sneak up from behind with your velcro gloves.
Foxes/badgers can't see the light from a sodium light...
Eh? Why not? I demand proof and call shenanigans!
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If it's truly problematic I'm sure we will get to hear about it from Henry.
You might. He has been wanting to retire from voluntary work for some years now and is showing increasing signs of being serious.
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(Hat tip to Stubbs) BMC latest.
No lamping at Cliff please.
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/ViewCrag.aspx?id=465
Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
Not been up there (at night) recently but realistically, how many of the "lamping crews" are likely to take notice of this advice from the BMC?
pray tell, what has lead you to this conclusion then?
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(Hat tip to Stubbs) BMC latest.
No lamping at Cliff please.
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/ViewCrag.aspx?id=465 (https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/ViewCrag.aspx?id=465)
Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
Not been up there (at night) recently but realistically, how many of the "lamping crews" are likely to take notice of this advice from the BMC?
I have been up there with lights many moons ago (camping gaz lantern + MTB light), but having seen multiple groups lighting the place up like a film set in the recent past I would agree with the sentiment that it is a pretty antisocial activity in terms of others' enjoyment of the outdoors at night. My argument would be that a couple of headtorches plus moderate powered directed spot would be acceptable but these folks are going full on overkill with their lighting set-ups.
Light pollution is a thing and not only in terms of blotting out the stars. :popcorn:
[hot take]
I think it is, sadly, things like Instagram. (Caveat that yes, I have been lamping at Almscliff once (in Oct 2015), and yes, there is a photo from that session on my feed.)
There's no denying that done right, a well-executed night shot of bouldering (no doubt using the ubiquitous OCF) is pretty nice. And they probably generate a good few likes or whatever as well. People want cool stuff on their social media.
It probably doesn't help that (sorry peewee, I know that your pics in the recent YMC guides are of places where this isn't a problem) there are some particularly good examples of it in recent guidebooks. Or that there are numerous pics / vids of top-level climbers online doing it in places in the middle of nowhere where it most probably isn't a problem.
I think ignorance of access sensitivity in general may also be partly to blame. Personally I was heartbroken when access to that-place-that-rhymes-with-seagull-tor got taken away, and that was a wake-up call for me.
I know a good few people (from following on Instagram and so on) who had been doing it just before the ban. I thought at the time things looked to be getting a bit OTT, but tried to be as subtle / non-confrontational as I could about my opinion when discussing it, but at that point my opinion was all that it was.
[/hot take]
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I feel suddenly incredibly fortunate to not have any social media presence that might pressurise me into doing stuff like antisocial night-time bouldering for "likes". What is the world coming to? Before long we'll end up with a leader of a major world power with this kind of social media driven outlook.... (friday?:) :boohoo:
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Don't get me wrong - I don't think it's just that.
I'm sure there are people who've got projects they're close to, they're working or whatever during the day, lamps are better / cheaper that they once were, #connies are decent after dark and besides, *everyone* else is doing it...so why not, right?
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you haven't answered my question.
I feel suddenly incredibly fortunate to not have any social media presence that might pressurise me into doing stuff like antisocial night-time bouldering for "likes". What is the world coming to?
I'm quite certain that people took lamps to the cliff because they actually wanted to go climbing.
Let's not overlook that the catalyst for the ban was because someone hurt themself and the Farmer considered climbing by lamplight to be too dangerous (he may have thought everyone was trad climbing for all we know).
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Deary me how terribly unthoughtdul of me not to reply forthwith!
Do you understand the difference between a question and a conclusion? (Hint: ?)
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the catalyst for the ban was because someone hurt themself
That's interesting - I don't think anyone mentioned it before? Any details? As in, were they bouldering, was it dark when the accident happened?
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the catalyst for the ban was because someone hurt themself
That's interesting - I don't think anyone mentioned it before? Any details? As in, were they bouldering, was it dark when the accident happened?
I think there was a recent broken leg and an MR call out.
From the other channel. Doesn't sound like it was during a lamp session but the land owner is concerned about the increased risk at night. Though this is second-hand information which I've then copied. Sounds plausible though.
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36C mentioned it previously in the thread. More details might be available on the MR team page?
http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,26747.msg535991.html#msg535991
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Presumably:
07/05/2015 - 21:15
Almscliffe Crag, North Rigton
The team was called out by the ambulance service to assist with a 27 year old male climber who had fallen 3 meters at Almscliffe Crag. Team members assisted ambulance service personnel to treat the casualty before he was stretchered to a waiting ambulance.
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the catalyst for the ban was because someone hurt themself
That's interesting - I don't think anyone mentioned it before? Any details? As in, were they bouldering, was it dark when the accident happened?
I don't know any details beyond the farmer mentioning it repeatedly when he spoke to us. From the 10 minute talk with him, I'm quite certain he never once mentioned light pollution or antisocial behaviour.
Highlights from a 60 second audio recording I almost forgot I had.
Farmer - “…and it’s very serious, if you break your leg tonight nobody expect to come and rescue you. [sic]”
Climber - “exactly the same people will come and rescue me as during the day time.”
Farmer - “Yes, but there’s no need to get them involved during the night…. …if you want to climb come in the daylight”
Farmer - “…look I’m not interested to argue, it’s a health and safety issue, now just go”
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Hmm. I wonder if you could get a view from the MRT on their concern (or lack of it) and suggest a curfew approach based on, say, midsummer twilight?
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Just thought I'd pop this here in case anyone starts getting the Regulators to mount up: a film shoot at the cliff on 15th Jan cleared with the land owner via the BMC
https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rock_talk/almscliffe_night_climbing_and_photofilm_shoot-742930
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"Let's make a film about doing something everyone else is not allowed to" is a bizarre plan
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Ah sweet, I didn't know you could book the place for an evening session. That's my next birthday sorted.
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"Let's make a film about doing something everyone else is not allowed to" is a bizarre plan
:agree: but it’s not solely about Almscliff, the guy responsible’s taking pictures of people lamping at other venues too (https://www.instagram.com/p/CXZIZuGoLUO/?utm_medium=copy_link).
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Yeah.
TBF to Marc that's his oeuvre, and I guess he's gone down the correct route to overtly ask permission from the right people, and presumably politely / nicely enough that they've said yes.
As opposed to the self-entitled "well nobody has said I can't, and I want some sick Insta clout photos" attitude that lead to the ban being in place in the first place...
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When they next film James Bond running across the roof of a moving train, I don't expect that I should also be allowed to run across it. Marc's budget might be a little bit lower, but he seems to have gone the right way about it and it's a one-off. Don't feel so hard done by!
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Seems a strange choice of venue; loads of other options available (Ilkley would be awesome), why choose the one major Yorkshire grit venue where lamping is explicitly banned?
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I presumed it was an Emmerdale/Yorkshire Vet/Helicopter Rescue episode. Surely you wouldn't want marketing or magazine material promoting a banned practice? Even with special permission :-\
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I was going to say CH5 Police Interceptors, but that would be more likely to be at West Vale!
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I woke up today with nothing to get outraged about so thank fuck this has come along.
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TBH it seems a bit odd to me as knocking out ambient light doesn't exactly require pitch black conditions (especially these days where HSS is built into cheap, aftermarket flashes)!
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West vale is a peaceful haven, they film police interceptors at mixenden quarry. Fortunately there is no need for lamps there, you can just use the light of the burning cars.
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I woke up today with nothing to get outraged about so thank fuck this has come along.
It's disgusting and I'd like a refund with compensation for my time, distress and inconvenience.
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Seems a strange choice of venue; loads of other options available (Ilkley would be awesome), why choose the one major Yorkshire grit venue where lamping is explicitly banned?
Surely you wouldn't want marketing or magazine material promoting a banned practice? Even with special permission :-\
Yep
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If the next Bond film doesn't feature a prolonged action sequence at West Vale, I'll be even more outraged!
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Bond escaping the baddies after they trip over discarded shopping trolleys, mattresses and other assorted junk while 007 shins up Scott Is Bent wall and off to his Aston Martin tractor on the pig farm above.
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If the next Bond film doesn't feature a prolonged action sequence at West Vale, I'll be even more outraged!
If the stunts aren't done by Gus I'll be incandescent.
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Perfect :lol:
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If the next Bond film doesn't feature a prolonged action sequence at West Vale, I'll be even more outraged!
If the stunts aren't done by Gus I'll be incandescent.
Doesn’t sound very suitable for night climbing Chris.
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You know that it would be untrue...