[chris j]

Not fulfilling the criteria you wanted, but I've been using the first gen m4/3 G1 with the 14-45 and the 20mm prime lens for a couple of years. The G1 body is too big for any but relatively easy MP routes, not sure how much smaller the GF series are. The prime is a cracking lens though, very sharp and the 14-45 kit lens is not far behind (not sure about the later 14-42).

Here's a couple of my better images to give you an idea of the sort of quality you can get with the system:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=126162
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrispj35/6017351815/#sizes/l/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrispj35/6108460159/#sizes/l/in/photostream/

[Muenchener]

I have an Olympus E410, which was the world's second lightest DSLR when I bought it - very cheap, because the fractionally even lighter E420 had just come out. It's a nice camera, and it does fill a niche between my "serious" camera (a Nikon D200, but the next one when I'm feeling flush will be full frame: D700 or Sony 850) and my point & shoot (Canon S90). But I only bought the Olympus because it was very cheap, and my point & shoot at the time was nowhere near as good as the Canon. If had already had a good big SLR and a good small compact camera, I'm not sure I would have seen a compelling need for someting in between.

Having said that, I lke the Olympus and I do still use it, although not as much as I did when I didn't have a decent pocket camera. I'm willing to carry it on strenuous multi-day hiking/backpacking trips, where it makes a good lightweight landscape camera. I've tried it snowboarding, and again found it good for portraits & landscapes, but the 14-42 lens isn't long enough for action shots, and if I bought a longer zoom it would lose much of the small/light advantage. I wouldn't carry it climbing: too big.

I can't comment on the non-SLR 4/3s cameras as I've never even held one.

[Tom de Gay]

I guess you could check the prices now. A GF-3 with the 28mm equiv. prime costs the same from Yodobashi as it does from Amazon here, at today's rate. Though of course, you can get a bit of tax back at Yodobashi if you have your passport. Worth checking that the warranty is worldwide too.


For the multi-pitch stuff it's kind of handy to have a camera that doesn't use a manual lenscap.

[chris j]

If you want something of a zoom with a mini GF3 body then this could be interesting - the same size when collapsed as the 20mm pancake!

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/panasonic_x_14-42_3p5-5p6/

[dave]

For a kickoff, can we stop calling it "four thirds", its MICRO four thirds.

Now I have never taken my GF1 up a multipitch route, but I have scrambled and snowboarded with a camera of almost identical size and weight to the GF1+20mm and it wasn't a problem, but would be different with a big zoom on it. Your mileage may vary. Bearing in mind Galen used to do all kinds of multipitch shit with a small SLR back in the day, depends how much you want the shot. If it were me then I recon a Canon S95 would be the kind of thing that would incur virtually no weight/bulk penalty but should bring you back good shots. Fuck it, you're the sultan of brunei, buy both and see which you like best.

In general about m4/3rds: great cameras, great size, fantastic glass. I can't speak for the zooms but the 20mm is phenomenally good (sharpest lens I've ever used on any system, fullstop) and is very small. 14mm is also very good and is even smaller - I've got lenscaps that are bigger than this thing. Early noises from the Olympus 45mm 1.8 just coming out are good, I can't wait. At the expected ~200 quid pricepoint it'll be another nobrainer. I have very few regrets from going down the m4/3 route, and those are more than covered by the reduction in weight and bulk.

Good thing about the m4/3 setup is if you don't like what panasonic are bringing out then you can switch to olympus or vise versa and keep the same glass. FOr example if panasonnic are hellbent on sticking with the daft touchscreen shit when I want to upgrade then I can buy a Pen, no problem. Compare that with the heartache of swapping between nikon and canon.

I would also expect to see a fuji camera under the m4/3rs banner too in the future. Basically m4/3s isn't going to go away, there's too many compaies bought into it already. Whereas the sony nex and samsung systems could just die a death if they don't sell enough, there's only one company backing their own horse. I've not looked at samsung since they have no small bodies, but the Sonys look toss, weird idiot-facing user interfaces and bodies that almost look too small, i.e. nothing to hold onto. And no flash shoe either. I can hear Bennett turning in his grave as we speak. Sony seem to be prone to dropping hotshoe related clangers, just look at their alpha lineup. Seems they've never heard of an ISO standard. To their credit the sony 16mm does look good though, a lens nikon or canon should have brought out half a decade ago.

EDIT: the above panasonic zoom does look interesting. There's no free lunch though, it is a slow lens.

EDIT 2: How does a cheap fisheye into the bargain grab you?

[dave]

Budget fish for m4/3



Should be good - I think their other shit for other formats reviews well, and the panasonic fisheye is about 700 nicker.

[Johnny Brown]

A tempting Sony option: Proper wideangle (24mm equiv) + BIG sensor + decent price

Bearing in mind Galen used to do all kinds of multipitch shit with a small SLR back in the day, depends how much you want the shot.

Been there, done it, not keen to return! Took an OM-4ti plus two primes up loads of multi-pitches over the years, including stuff like Lotus Flower & the Scoop on Strone. It was the right choice at the time, and worked great when mountaineering, but the reality was on multi-pitch rock it was too big and I didn't get many shots, let alone keepers.

Nowadays I'll either take a full-size SLR and deal with it, or a compact small enough to pocket and pull out mid-move. I don't see much point in anything in between - its just going to stay in the bag/case until you're in a convenient spot, same as an SLR. I still plan to get an LX-5, but for now my GX100 is a massive improvement on anything I've had before, though admittedly it hasn't had much chance to prove its chops in print yet.

[dave]

A tempting Sony option: Proper wideangle (24mm equiv) + BIG sensor + decent price

I assumed for a minute you'd be referring to this.

[Paul B]

For a kickoff, can we stop calling it "four thirds", its MICRO four thirds.

And no flash shoe either. I can hear Bennett turning in his grave as we speak.

The GF3 is lacking in that department too (on the other point the Verdon isn't for a few weeks).

[dave]

Yeah they've puntered it down a bit too far there for my liking. I'm surprised they still give you a tripod socket.

[Paul B]

Damn right it does, the multi-branded 85mm 1.4 and 35 1.4 are very well reviewed (but manual focus) and their fisheye seemed like the best canon option until the newly released 8-15 ($$$).

[dave]

and lets face it, who actually needs AF on a fisheye? not dave.

[Control freak]

There's a review of the Olympus Pen E-P2 here with some pretty good results

[Paul B]

There's an LX5/GF3 comparison here:



if you can manage to get through the nonsense at the start.

[tomtom]

There's a review of the Olympus Pen E-P2 here with some pretty good results

Cheers. Written from something close to the climbers' POV ie strong preference for light + compact.

I sense a desire for reviews giving justifucation positive reinforcement for a future purchase

[Johnny Brown]

The Sony bodies look really small - some of the lens options are too. Same big sensor size as the Fuji (APS-C).

[Paul B]

The Sony bodies look really small - some of the lens options are too. Same big sensor size as the Fuji (APS-C).

But the lenses are meant to be poor even the primes.

[Paul B]

Harrisons have just tweeted they've got a used G6 in, £75 and today the LX5 firmware update is available for anyone else using one.

[David S]

I have a Sony NEX 5 and I must say that the results from the sensor are very good. I put someones Carl Ziess lens on it via an adaptor and it was excellent, with great sharpness, contrast and colour. The kit 18-55mm lens is not too bad either and gives good results.  The 16mm is a bit soft but will sharpen up okay in post production. Can't wait for some new lenses.
Okay it's a bit bulky compared to an S95 but easily managable whilst climbing. then again I've often taken a Canon 1D series body with a lens or two on a route so that doesn't relate.

[Paul B]

S95 Replaced with S100 amongst other things.

Now 24-120mm

[gingerninja]

i want one. looks like its got the ring to fit a converter on it too. guess there will be a new g camera soon then.

[tomtom]

Nikon have jumped on the mirrorless/ interchangable lens bandwagon

Oddly they have opted for a smaller sensor size than m4/3rds.

Yes, but they do a Pink one now

[dave]

a Motion Snapshot mode, which records a still image and about a 1-second clip, then plays it back at about 0.4x speed (slow motion) with music.

There's also Smart Photo Selector, a 20-shot burst mode which saves the camera-determined best 5.

no hotshoe

no fast normal prime

Are you guys the crew? Am I the centre of something here?



(those last 2 quotes are from me)

[slackline]

Tiny, but quality may be an issue

[chummer]

Right then, I've scratched my GX200 lens, will more of a tiny ding  and am off somewhere mountainous and snowy so want to replace it. I can't afford to go the whole hog on the LX5 so am considering the LX1. 

Then I just found this:  http://www.cliftoncameras.co.uk/Ricoh_GX200 for £200!!

I even considered the Olympus Tough TG610 and  just for all round ruggedness as it'll mainly be a climbing camera, summer and winter. Any experience knowledge on this appreciated.

I will be taking my SLR with me but not up the very big hills.

Please tell me what to buy