[El Mocho]

Spoke to some puns at the tor yesterday, apparently the tree was there at 9.00pm on friday. On sat morning (around 6.00) some guys from london turned up at the crag (they were camping, it was raining so they went as they would be dry) as soon as they arrived another team who were at the crag packed up and left (in a turquoise car) and the tree was gone. Got the impression they looked like climbers...

... apparently one had a gotee, talked about mushrooms all the time. What color is your car jon? (just kidding)

[Duncan Disorderly]

I read this at 9:30 today an am still shocked......

I just can fathom the motivation of anyone doing this.....

[Fiend]

No antennae, nothing to incriminate Bonjoy with...

I kinda support the ladder idea. What about a Bachar Laddar from a twin bolt by the normal transfer-to-rock point?? Would give a little warm-up too 

[dave]

I assume the cut-down tree is still there? if so, I think it would be the the true spirit of peak limestone that the tree be glued back in place with sika, or failing that we just recreate a rough approximation of the tree with car body filler. maybe use scaffolding poles as a skeleton.

[Paz]

On their behalf Bonjovi, I apologise for the people of UKC, who really seem to have excelled themselves. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sycamores are invasive non natives (from canada?) but Ash trees are indigenous. 

I still want to throw you in a pond - if you sink you were innocent all along.  If you float, then you're guilty, of something ;-)/

[Alan James, Rockfax]

On their behalf Bonjovi, I apologise for the people of UKC, who really seem to have excelled themselves. 

Which comment on UKC are you basing this on? The thread seems fine to me, no outrageous speculation, just a lot of people lamenting the loss of the tree. The only post to have been removed from that thread was Jon's own which he removed himself.

Alan, UKC hat on

[MattH]

Looks like we'll be discussing this at the Peak Area Meeting on Wed this week. Traveller's Rest by the Roaches. 8.30pm. Climbing at Ramshaw first.

MattH

[slackline]

On their behalf Bonjovi, I apologise for the people of UKC, who really seem to have excelled themselves. 

Which comment on UKC are you basing this on? The thread seems fine to me, no outrageous speculation, just a lot of people lamenting the loss of the tree. The only post to have been removed from that thread was Jon's own which he removed himself.

Alan, UKC hat on

Perhaps Paz has excelled himself?

[Paz]

Alan and slack-line - the Brouhaha following the sycamore felling.  Not that I've seen it.

[Bonjoy]

On their behalf Bonjovi, I apologise for the people of UKC, who really seem to have excelled themselves. 

Which comment on UKC are you basing this on? The thread seems fine to me, no outrageous speculation, just a lot of people lamenting the loss of the tree. The only post to have been removed from that thread was Jon's own which he removed himself.

Alan, UKC hat on

Yes, I don't see anything untoward on UKC either.

 Alan, I replaced my post on UKC with a one liner, as suggested by Serpico and to avoid starting a fuss about the (IMO)rather insignificant Rubicon tree business. It was pretty much a straight copy of a couple of posts on here if anyone is really interested. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, given I already said I'd deleted a UKC post on this thread.

[Bonjoy]

Paz I said:

.... any subsequent brouhaha it may have triggered on UKC ....

Looking at it again I suppose you could read that as meaning some brouhaha had occured, but I mean't potential, as-yet-unrealised brouhaha

[slackline]

Alan and slack-line - the Brouhaha following the sycamore felling.  Not that I've seen it.

Ahh, a pre-emptive strike.

[Alan James, Rockfax]

Alan, I replaced my post on UKC with a one liner, as suggested by Serpico and to avoid starting a fuss about the (IMO)rather insignificant Rubicon tree business. It was pretty much a straight copy of a couple of posts on here if anyone is really interested. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, given I already said I'd deleted a UKC post on this thread.

Not trying to make any point against you, just defending UKC from Paz's rather curious sideswipe. I wanted to make the point that I hadn't tampered with the thread before coming on here.

Maybe we are both being a little defensive! I have no objection to you removing your post.

[ChrisC]

The only post to have been removed from that thread was Jon's own which he removed himself.

Alan, UKC hat on

That one - and the one Mick posted and then quickly removed.  It was in a typical Mick-'This will stir things up a bit'-Ryan style. 

EDIT - It's hardly important in the grand scheme of things though 

[Bonjoy]

Yes I'm being rather over defensive. I have something of a sense of humour faillure as far as being connected with this appalling incident.

[Paz]

Oh right, sorry.  I apologise for apologising.  And for in general for apologising too much.  Once again, I'm sorry.

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sycamores are invasive non natives (from canada?) but Ash trees are indigenous. 

Because it is invasive and exotic, sycamore is a controversial tree which some conservation bodies try to eradicate where it threatens to take over remnant ancient woodlands.

..or as my Gran (font of all gardening knowledge) said when looking at the numerous self seeded saplings in our garden..."You have a sycamore problem"

So Paz you are correct and Bonjoy you have Royal approval and (even better) the approval of my Gran.

[Sloper]

Now I'm not defending the deforestation but, in the grand scheme of things if the tree didn't have a TPO on it, if the tor isn't a SSSI and the land owner doesn't kick up a fuss is it (bar the change to the routes) that big a deal?

After all if there was anything that was likely to cause access issues then surely it would be the parking under the crag (an urban clearway, no really, well at least a clearway) and general climbers behaviour.

As for the people responsible I'd say the smart money is on a young plastic pulling wannabe who thought they could, after cutting the tree down claim a 'proper' ascent of one of the routes that commonly used the tree as a start.

I just don't buy any other explanation.

And just for the record, I don't approve of their actions.

[Fiend]

This time it's not an enviromental issue so much as a climbing tradition / route history issue.

[slackline]

This time it's not an enviromental issue so much as a climbing tradition / route history issue.

Which takes precedence and at what point do the scales tip from one to the other? ???

Probably worth attending the BMC meet to find out 

[Paz]

In reply to Sloper & fiend % slack line. 

I think UKB needs to nominate someone to keep a watchful eye on 8a.nu, give em about 2-3 weeks to redpoint then check in monthly.  Also if there any dissident factions within the tree surgery community, they should be placed under what survailance powers we have.  Meanwhile, I'll go and make sure Extreme Ironing hasn't been updatd in two and a half months. 

Bubba.  Cavers.  You know what to do.

[Ena]

if the tor isn't a SSSI

Actually it is, unit 26 of the Wye Valley SSSI, at least at the base. As is the whole of the valley down to Bakewell. Haven't read the designation yet, but there's some interesting reading for this and the related NNRs. PM for more info.