[abarro81]

Couldn't see anything in a search, so...
Any tall and weak people got good beta for the drop down at the end? Tried it for the first time today and struggling to get anywhere with this move. Do most people do it how unclesomebody does in his youtube vid?

[r-man]

If you're tall you can lank the last move, but behind your back people will tut and mutter. No 7c tick for that! As long as you have left hand in the pocket and bring right hand to the undercut, anything goes, I think... (though I'm aware I may be sternly reprimanded for this suggestion)

Most people do it as per unclesomebody's vid. I've heard it's possible to get a toehook in using this method. You can also egyptian to get undercut, which I did as it felt less tenuous, but then there's still a hard move to shift your trailing foot.

[abarro81]

By lank the move do you mean using go-again sequences rather than drop downs? I was under the - perhaps misinformed - impression that this was 'cheating' for the powerband tick? Or is it just looked down on? I found the toe hook (both high one on L of pillar and low one on R of pillar) but it seemed to make it harder in some crazy way.

[r-man]

Yes, it's cheating. That's the message I was attempting to convey.

The toehook never worked for me either. Anyway, it's limestone. It's Raven Tor. The beta is: PULL HARDER. 

Just keep trying the last move. Suddenly it will click.

[The Sausage]

Going again isn't cheating, it's not powerband. You haven't done it in any sense whatsoever if you don't drop down to the undercling off the pocket. As R-Man says, just pull harder. There aren't really any tricks, get your feet bridged between the back wall and the pillar, and lurch down for the undercling.

[Kingy]

I sacked off the egyptian method as wack in the end. Easier to get the undercut and then nails to jump your RF down to the ledge as your left foot is then too high. Best to man up for the vague bridge between right wall and pillar. Try tiny spike for LF which is higher than tall person's left foothold and polished small square right foothold up and right of the big low edge for RF. You sort of back step off the RF and your feet are not too low. Works pretty well for those not tall enough for the low footholds.

[dave]

It makes me laugh when people get all precious about people not using the "original sequence" and lanking through at the end of powerband, yet are quite happy to lank through the pinch bit in the middle using all the big footholds that never used to be there and that really short people can't use anyway. bear in mind the middle bit used to be the crux. I'm guessing most people taking the holier-than-thou stance on powerband end conveniently forget the middle bit.

climbing from the beginning to the end using everything; a great 7c (bottom end?), call it what you want.

[r-man]

climbing from the beginning to the end using everything; a great 7c (bottom end?), call it what you want.

Crap.

[Jaspersharpe]

Hmmm. If you climb from begining to end using everything then that would include being able to drop down to the mono and miss out the middle moves as well as missing out the pocket move at the end by swinging straight from jug to pillar.

This is still a good problem but it isn't Powerband and I don't think it would warrant 7C as it's a lot easier than the "original" way. I originally did the problem very quickly this way (as it was shown to me by Zippy as the easier version) and then worked on first doing the middle bit properly and then the middle bit and the end properly. Likewise with Staminaband. I never felt that I had actually done either problem til I'd eliminated the easier moves but I know other people were happy enough using the lank method at the end and taking the tick.

It's a good point re the footholds but it's slightly different if they just make the same moves easier to actually missing out the move on the pocket at the end. Is it even possible for everyone to do the middle moves in the "original" way now? I know I used lower footholds than some people and if these have now improved then I would either have to use them or artificially make the problem harder for myself than it originally was by using the higher holds. Either way I'd still want to be doing that end move to get the Powerband tick as anything else is, well, something else to me. 

[Jaspersharpe]

Oh and in answer to the OP I generally used the egyptian and as Kingy said the crux was moving your foot down after getting the undercut. The vague bridge method makes for a harder move to get your hand down but then it's pretty much all over.

[dave]

Hmmm. If you climb from begining to end using everything then that would include being able to drop down to the mono and miss out the middle moves

i woulnd't lose sleep over it, but i think the notion of the low mono way being easier isn't applicable these days - I think this method came about before the big footholds appeared, and then I gather it was actually an easier sequence - these days I think it would actually be harder than doing it the normal way - hence why you never see anyone doing it this way (or at least i haven't).

[Jaspersharpe]

I didn't realise that the footholds had made that much difference as dropping down to the mono used to be way easier. Interesting.

[Johnny Brown]

Wow. The shittest problem in the peak looks shit, but is actually even shitter. Not only is it a low traverse, its an eliminate. I really think if it hadn't been Jerry who did these they would have been laughed off the historical record.

[account_inactive]

If it wasn't for the great powerful climbing.......

[SA Chris]

Wow. The shittest problem in the peak looks shit, but is actually even shitter. Not only is it a low traverse, its an eliminate. I really think if it hadn't been Jerry who did these they would have been laughed off the historical record.

Harsh words, softly spoken.

[Jaspersharpe]

Wow. The shittest problem in the peak looks shit, but is actually even shitter. Not only is it a low traverse, its an eliminate. I really think if it hadn't been Jerry who did these they would have been laughed off the historical record.

Hogwash. I don't give a toss who did it first, the climbing is great. 

[Andy B]

If it was that bad people would just get the tick (for historical/ FA significance or whatever) and never do it again, and yet loads of people keep coming back and doing it time and again. There are more and more non-eliminate alternative problems on limestone, and yet this is, i suspect, still the most popular boulder problem on british lime (except for 1, 8, 14 obviously). Doesn't sound like the shittest problem in the peak to me.

[unclesomebody]

Wow. The shittest problem in the peak looks shit, but is actually even shitter. Not only is it a low traverse, its an eliminate. I really think if it hadn't been Jerry who did these they would have been laughed off the historical record.

Seconded. I only did it because I was moving in the footsteps of Ben and Jerry. As far as I'm concerned it's shit. Strict blueband has far better moves, but it's still not very good.

[Andy B]

I only did it because I was moving in the footsteps of Ben and Jerry.

and if all the footholds have changed you weren't even doing that!

What a waste of your time!

[Stubbs]

Aren't the people who come back and do it time and again just trying to get fit enough to  do staminaband 

[Bonjoy]

I think it climbs really nice. You've got to make the most of what's to hand. Castle Hill's a bit too far from S7 for my after work sessions. I pity you climbers who's high standards stop you enjoying your local crags.

[dave]

I pity you climbers who's high standards stop you enjoying your local crags.

never was a truer word spoken.

[Andy B]

Aren't the people who come back and do it time and again just trying to get fit enough to  do staminaband 

Nope. I see plenty of people who've already done staminaband still playing on Powerband, plus some that do Staminaband time and again.

[Jim]

There are much better local crags for those living in sheffield.
Thankfully us mancs have hobson moor and wimberry which was in great condition last night

[dave]

There are much better local crags for those living in sheffield.

I hear the plantation is an amazing choice for those humid midgey 25degree july evenings when its lashing down with rain. Plus throw into that mix the excellent sport routes on offer and you've sold me - I WILL NEVER GO TO THE TOR AGAIN.

[Jim]

I was thinking more bell hagg

[Jaspersharpe]

Poxy limestone eh Jim. It's shite isn't it.

http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,5483.msg152119.html#msg152119

 

[Jim]

I was winding Dave up. Also the cave is fucking awsome. 100 times better than the tor or rubicon.
I've nothing against limestone in general, it just doesn't really lend itself to good climbing IMHO unless you've got some drilled pockets in a roof.
I've done weedkiller traverse so I've nothing to go back to peak limestone for although I'm sure I will end up there at some point over the summer

[Bonjoy]

I've nothing against limestone in general, it just doesn't really lend itself to good climbing IMHO unless you've got some drilled pockets in a roof.

 Wow, I never realised you'd done loads of limestone stuff. Visited the classic brit limestone crags, Malham, Kilnsey, Gordale, Pembroke, Chapel Head Scar, etc. Tasted the really good stuff on the continent Rodellar, Terradets, Buoux, the Verdon, Dolomites, Picos de Europa, Slovenia etc, etc. And of course taken in some of the international stuff like Castle Hill, Mexico, Thailand.... Obviously you wouldn't be so blinkered as to base that sweeping statement on a handful of bouldering visits to Rubicon, Raven Tor, the Cave, Woodwell, Angel Bay...obviously...

[Jim]

I was referring to bouldering as you know I don't do dirty routes so you can cross most of them venues off your list.
Would love to go to castle hill but I'm not made of money and I've got a job and a family. Watched big game recently and it looks proper bo.
I wasn't on a limestone bashing tip, I'm sure there are some excellent routes on lime throughout the world.
Also IMHO is in my honest opinion, as being a 13 stone, sausage fingered, zero stamina type of guy I am, it is likely that the majority of climbing on slimestone doesn't suit me.

[dave]

Also IMHO is in my honest opinion, as being a 13 stone, sausage fingered, zero stamina type of guy I am, it is likely that the majority of climbing on slimestone doesn't suit me.

maybe drop 7 pounds off there and you're describing me.

[Bonjoy]

  You'd like Castle Hill anyway

[The Sausage]

Wow. The shittest problem in the peak looks shit, but is actually even shitter. Not only is it a low traverse, its an eliminate. I really think if it hadn't been Jerry who did these they would have been laughed off the historical record.

Come on JB, I love over-opinionated, narrow minded, megalomaniacal rants, but your repetitive whinging about powerband is even boring me. Yes, it's not the most aesthetic piece of rock in existence. Yes, it's a traverse (but not a low one in that it's nowhere near a bum scraper). Yes, it does climb brilliantly. The proof of the pudding, as they say, is in the eating.

I agree with Jasper: If new holds appear or old ones change and become the norm, that is entirely different to missing out the whole point of the problem, ie the drop down off the pocket. It isn't a question of being 'holier than thou' about doing the problem the original way, it is about doing the problem is the acceptable fashion.

[Nigel]

Do people really still bang on this drum? The fact of the matter is, rightly or wrongly, that if you don't do the last move off the pocket then although you've climbed the line you can't claim it because people will just talk behind your back and you'll have an awful hollow feeling in your belly. Like I say, I'm not here to debate the ethics of the situation, it's just that that's how it plays so if you don't like it then prepare to be roundly shamed out of town - you have no recourse to reason.

I can't understand why anyone is defending this to Johnny "rent-an-anti-limestone-quote" Brown, do you really think he will be swayed?  You can't see the light at the end of the tunnel if you're looking backwards Adam 

[Kingy]

bear in mind the middle bit used to be the crux.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the last move using the pocket was always the crux of PB even when the middle bit had its original footholds. I was under the impression that back in the day the middle bit using the sculpted pinch became the redpoint crux of the whole thing on Staminaband. However, from the PB start, the last move was still the most difficult bit as you dont have a chance to get tired before getting to the sculpted pinch.

[Bonjoy]

As a tiny yoot, back before the footholds grew, I used to be able to do the end move consistently but could never link the middle bit. For me at least the middle bit was the hardest moves, no doubt about it. But I suppose the end move may still have proved the 'redpoint' crux, had I been able to get that far.

[Kingy]

Oh really I suppose that is a measure of how easy the middle bit has now become, now the last move is about 2 grades harder than any move on it!!

[dave]

....which kinda scotches the notion that the last move is "the whole point". its a traverse for a reason - i.e. its not just about 1 move. if it was it'd be a shit traverse.

[a dense loner]

You can't see the light at the end of the tunnel if you're looking backwards Adam

i take it you haven't got your confined spaces ticket with a statement like that then?

[r-man]

As a tiny yoot, back before the footholds grew, I used to be able to do the end move consistently but could never link the middle bit. For me at least the middle bit was the hardest moves, no doubt about it. But I suppose the end move may still have proved the 'redpoint' crux, had I been able to get that far.

Ah, but I talked someone once who said that back in the day he had never managed to do the last move, not even on its own, despite being able to get all the way there from the start of staminaband. Can't remember who this was though.

[Jaspersharpe]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the last move using the pocket was always the crux of PB even when the middle bit had its original footholds. I was under the impression that back in the day the middle bit using the sculpted pinch became the redpoint crux of the whole thing on Staminaband. However, from the PB start, the last move was still the most difficult bit as you dont have a chance to get tired before getting to the sculpted pinch.

Absolutely spot on. The last move was always considered the hardest but you get a rest before it so on Staminaband the redpoint crux was getting through the middle bit. For me this was certainly the case anyway.

Ah, but I talked someone once who said that back in the day he had never managed to do the last move, not even on its own, despite being able to get all the way there from the start of staminaband. Can't remember who this was though.

Completely feasible depending on (lack of) finger strength.

As a tiny yoot, back before the footholds grew, I used to be able to do the end move consistently but could never link the middle bit. For me at least the middle bit was the hardest moves, no doubt about it. But I suppose the end move may still have proved the 'redpoint' crux, had I been able to get that far.

The middle bit was always easier for the tall so this may have had a bearing.

[T_B]

I agree with Jasper: If new holds appear or old ones change and become the norm, that is entirely different to missing out the whole point of the problem, ie the drop down off the pocket. It isn't a question of being 'holier than thou' about doing the problem the original way, it is about doing the problem is the acceptable fashion.

Hang on a second. As someone who weighs nearly 14 stone, but is 6'2, I fail to see why I can't take the tick by not hanging the pocket?

From where I'm sat, you skinny types don't deserve the grades on most of the heniously crimpy Tor routes, where being a 9 stone rubber band = fewer pounds per square inch through the ole finger tips.

The drop down move at the end of Power/Staminaband isn't even that long a reach. Hanging the pocket is just poor technique

[cowboyhat]

It makes me laugh when people get all precious about people not using the "original sequence" and lanking through at the end of powerband, yet are quite happy to lank through the pinch bit in the middle using all the big footholds that never used to be there and that really short people can't use anyway. bear in mind the middle bit used to be the crux. I'm guessing most people taking the holier-than-thou stance on powerband end conveniently forget the middle bit.
climbing from the beginning to the end using everything; a great 7c (bottom end?), call it what you want.

I disagree with almost all of this. You know my stats



The middle bit was always easy, the footholds just got bigger.

Whether its an eliminate or not, its your conscience. As is established its an eliminate training problem so aesthetic considerations have to be minimised. If you aren't even going to do it properly then I have to ask, why are you doing it?

Feel free to come up with loads of examples of me lanking a problem  - here is one to start, Brass Monkeys. My own experience of Power/Staminia bands was that I wanted to do them, for the challenge, and perhaps because they are much harder with the pocket and as uncle said, for posterity's sake, not because I could lank through the move and claim a soft tick.

I can't believe I've waded into this.

[a dense loner]

neither can i

[dave]

If you aren't even going to do it properly then I have to ask, why are you doing it?

just the enjoyment of climbing.

P.S. personally speaking I have done the end move off the pocket several times, and had one or maybe two goes at linking it but have pretty much decided not to bother anymore (unless possibly if i'm stuck there with nowt else do) as I could no doubt do it given enough goes but I'd be doing it for the wrong reasons, i.e. to shut everyone else up rather than for myself. i've got better things to be doing.

[Doylo]

I originally did SB lanking the end, but it always niggled me so i went back and did it with the pocket. Having said that, each to their own, as long as you can sleep at night.........

[cowboyhat]

I think i'll be losing sleep about getting drawn into an argument about powerband.

[Paul B]

Hang on a second. As someone who weighs nearly 14 stone, but is 6'2, I fail to see why I can't take the tick by not hanging the pocket?

It's the tor, you just accept that these funny rules etc. make it what it is. Next people will be saying they've done Seans at that place we do not mention without campussing the start. Oh that's already been done. 

As is established its an eliminate training problem so aesthetic considerations have to be minimised. If you aren't even going to do it properly then I have to ask, why are you doing it?

Spot on.

I originally did SB lanking the end, but it always niggled me so i went back and did it with the pocket.

HERO

[Doylo]

HERO

Certainly am,also did Salar and Out of My Tree on the same day. Look at me!

[Adam Lincoln]

HERO

Certainly am,also did Salar and Out of My Tree on the same day. Look at me!

Medal's on its way....

[Andy B]

Lordy!