[cider nut]

Very true.  But it you speak to enough people,read enough articles,listen to enough experts, you can eventually come to an informed opinion on what's best to do and what works best for you

[Fiend]

if you speak to enough people,read enough articles,listen to enough experts.you will eventually hear what you want to hear.which is that its ok to carry on climbing,training ,wanking etc.

when i've had golfers elbow in the past and was told to wear a brace and not climb for 3 months.i just wore the brace,did various exercises and generally carried on as normal and it stopped hurting after a few months.

QED!

[duncan]

Interesting comment by an unknown person on the font of all medical / climbing injury knowledge:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=307808&v=1

The bad news is that you MUST stop climbing for between 12 - 18 months.

Anyone like to confirm or deny whether that is true??

In general, 12-18 months complete rest for tendon problems is now an unusual view.  That poster's suggestions regarding NSAIDs are also about 15 years behind current knowledge and best practice.  Tendon problems of a few months standing have little or no inflammation, so anti-inflammatory drugs have little or no role in their management.

Speaking generally again, people tend to under-rest when problems are recent but over-rest when they have been going on for some time.

It is inappropriate to give very specific advice over the 'net, even when (as you have fiend) the problem is described very clearly.   

[cider nut]

duncan, are you a physio?  If so where are you based?

[Ru]

Interesting comment by an unknown person on the font of all medical / climbing injury knowledge:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=307808&v=1

The bad news is that you MUST stop climbing for between 12 - 18 months.

Anyone like to confirm or deny whether that is true??

As said before, I didn't stop climbing at all. While I was trying to find a cure I needed to take days off to let the pain subside though. Have you read and tried the exercises in that pdf I linked to?

[Fiend]

Yeah, going to pick up some weights of a friend this week.

[AndiT]

I have exactly the same injury as described Fiend. Reading the article suggests it to be tendonosis. It goes when I warm up and hurts when I do actions like washing my face.

If I try the exercises though, it makes my wrist hurt and almost kind of click, is this normal or just a result of the injury, or am I using too much weight. If I use less weight, then it doesn't tire the arm, so I could do millions of reps.

[Fiend]

I've started the exercises, on 10-12kg, about in the middle of the range suggested. Like yourself it makes my wrist ache a bit and occasionally click, it feels like a lot of strain is going through it. I do get a bit fatigued in the arm as required but not a lot.

[saltbeef]

The bad news is that you MUST stop climbing for between 12 - 18 months.

no absolutes in medicine. i think he's talking shit. i had tendonitis, it was fucking rubbish, generally related to my my posture and campusing. i stopped doing this and stood up straight, had a lay off of 3 weeks and went swimming, running and did heaps of press ups.

[AndiT]

I've adapted the wrist curls thing with a theraband, and it gives my wrist aload less gip. I sit down and stand on the ends of the band and lay my forearm along my thigh, and then stretch the band upwards. No wrist pain this way, and more arm fatigue.

[i.munro]

New suggestion from my physio, in case anyone is interested, is to wrap something (towel or I'm trying handlebar tape) around the dumbbell to make a fat grip when  doing the eccentric half of wrist curls so that the fingers are gripping as when climbing.

Also what do the commitee think about doing one arm/hand training with the good arm(after two weeks out I'm getting a bit twitchy).

I suspect this is jsust a good way to get matching injuries?

[milksnake]

I had a similar injury from doing too many thuggy overhangs (same place but on the tricep tendon). I didn't stop climbing i just did loads of slabby technical routes till it went away, the sort of stuff where the holds are too poor to crank on. the added bonus is that my footwork is pretty good now. I took ibuprofen whilst i was climbing but i think it did more harm than good, it wouldn't hurt when I climbed but I really felt it the next day! So basically, try and climb like a girl.

[i.munro]

Ok I'm doing the palms up eccentric stuff as advised by my physio & discussed on here but it only felt uncomfortable for the first day or so.

If it doesn't hurt the injury (even a ickle bit) does that mean I'm trying to strengthen the wrong bit?

Getting really frustrated now!!

[Paul B]

New suggestion from my physio, in case anyone is interested, is to wrap something (towel or I'm trying handlebar tape) around the dumbbell to make a fat grip when  doing the eccentric half of wrist curls so that the fingers are gripping as when climbing.

Also what do the commitee think about doing one arm/hand training with the good arm(after two weeks out I'm getting a bit twitchy).

I suspect this is jsust a good way to get matching injuries?

Supposedly Gresham was once found working out with one arm whilst the other was broken or something, people scoffed at this until he produced some book or paper or something on neuromuscular symmetry however i'm not sure if its actually a load of tripe after watching lady in the water.

[i.munro]

I'm afraid you lost me with 'Lady in the water' ???

[Fiend]

Booked to see Ozzy at the end of this week and Paul @ SCC after the weekend. Will see what they have to say about exercises and stuff.

I'm wondering with this eccentric business, whether light climbing training and then downclimbing everything you go up could be useful for tendon-strengthening on the same basis??

[Paul B]

I'm afraid you lost me with 'Lady in the water' ???

Its a film and it has a guy in it who only works out one side of his body, needless to say one side of his is bigger than the other. Shit film.

[i.munro]

Its a film and it has a guy in it who only works out one side of his body, needless to say one side of his is bigger than the other. Shit film.

Ah ok thanks (shouldn't it be called crabman returns or something?). I seem to remember reading somewhere that training the uninjured side is a way of reducing atrophy in the injured limb but I've no idea if or how this applies to sports performance.

[i.munro]

Booked to see Ozzy at the end of this week and Paul @ SCC after the weekend. Will see what they have to say about exercises and stuff.

So what's the word?? I'm just about pain-free now & wondering where to go from here.

[Fiend]

Ozzy dealt with it pretty much as before. He confirmed the excercises had good reasoning behind them and that I should keep doing them. He also suggested a way of taping directly around the elbow and said that after 6 weeks pretty much total rest, more rest would be counter-productive - gentle climbing and continuing with the exercises would be good.

[i.munro]

Ozzy dealt with it pretty much as before. He confirmed the excercises had good reasoning behind them and that I should keep doing them. He also suggested a way of taping directly around the elbow and said that after 6 weeks pretty much total rest, more rest would be counter-productive - gentle climbing and continuing with the exercises would be good.

Thanks. Looks like we're at almost exactly the same stage. Guess I've been lucky as I  first posted to this thread before current problems started.
Were you given any thoughts on how/when to combine gentle climbing & rehab? How many time a week rest days etc?

[Fiend]

No, I'm not at the pain-free stage. Have mild pain upon pressure at any time, and more noticable pain after any climbing / similar usage.

I wasn't given any specific advice on rehab. Just keep doing massage, ice water, dumbell exercises, and light climbing, and don't go anywhere near my physical limit.

[i.munro]

Thanks again.

I'm trying to work out whether to do the dumbell stuff on the same day as gentle climbing or not & how much I need to rest. Back to the physio I guess.

[Fiend]

- see someone else? Dont get me wrong Ozzy is top.... you might need a more whole arm & shoulder & neck massage / freeing up (read hideous screaming)... Paul wilson at sheffield chiro clinic is the man for this. I see both Paul and ozzy, I recommend both...

Well it wasn't quite that bad as he worked on my forearm only. But it was plenty painful enough. He scared me at first. I don't like military people - they are trained killers. And I'm not.

Anyway he did a lot of friction massage and loosening stuff around the muscle and tendon. Says this is very important (I had mostly been massaging the tendon area). Muscle feels noticably softer afterwards.

Recommended to keep doing the eccentric dumbell exercises (and the antangonistic muscles), keep doing the ice water and my own massage. Recommended a specific strap around the elbow during exercise that puts pressure on the tendon before the injury site to give it more chance to heal.. Recommended as much rest as possible but if I am doing anything that puts strain on it, that I must ice it after usage.

Errr so there we go. Still injured. Still pissed off.

[stom]

Been suffering with this myself for around the last 6 weeks!  Just found this article by the same guy that wrote the "Dodgy Elbows" article in Rock & Ice.  It gives some further recovery adivice that may be of interest!

http://www.athlon.com.au/articles/sportslink_pg6-9.pdf