[Sincybabes]

Is creatine beneficial in climbing?
if not, what is it meant for?
worth taking?

cheers

Andy

[Sloper]

Basically no, it's not worth taking, just eat a healthy balanced diet with enough first class protein.  I'd also recommend using slow cook cuts and making soup with bones / carcasses.

Supplements like creatine are an expensive way of harming your kidneys and liver.

[Bubba]

I used to find it extremely beneficial but the benefits vary from person to person.

Don't you have to really over-indulge in order to cause liver and kidney damage?

[slackline]

Supplements like creatine are an expensive way of harming your kidneys and liver.

A bit like wine then 

[Sloper]

Yep.

Seriously though, if you have a good diet you shouldn't need any supplements.

It's been a while since I looked but I can't remember any peer reviewed evidence based trials that indicated any significant benefit from things like whey powder, creatine etc.

[Paul B]

I think a search is in order, houdini and I battled this out a while ago...

[Houdini]

Oh no we didn't! 


(Seriously, I'd eagerly munch whey protein if it helped me feel less like a deadman after a hard run.  I'm finding recovery very tough these days.  Age . . .)

[Paul B]

Don't start again 

Have you tried to see if whey helps (recently)? Recovery XS is veggie I think....

[slackline]

It's been a while since I looked but I can't remember any peer reviewed evidence based trials that indicated any significant benefit from things like whey powder, creatine etc.

Any peer reviewed evidence based trials that showed any significant detriment to the kidney's and liver?

A quick PubMed scan indicated studies of the effects in kidney/liver transplant patients, but I didn't dig any deeper.  Presumably your familiar with the literature already?

[Houdini]

Have you tried to see if whey helps (recently)? Recovery XS is veggie I think....

Never ever tried any of these things but feel it's time I did.  I can't cope w/ the exercise load any more, just gets harder and takes longer to recover.  Recovery?  That's a brand?  None too concerned about veggie or not.

Frankly, if reciting passages from the Necronomicom backwards near a pregnant budgie under a full moon at midnight worked I've have a crack at that too.

[Paul B]

SIS Rego
Maximuscle Promax
My Protein Recovery XS

all very similar apart from one thing: cost.. I've heard the MP stuff tastes a little more "formula" esque...

[Serpico]

I use Decathlon's Recuperation. I used to use SlimFast which is the recovery drink of choice for the UK Olympic rowing team.

[Sloper]

It's been a while since I looked but I can't remember any peer reviewed evidence based trials that indicated any significant benefit from things like whey powder, creatine etc.

Any peer reviewed evidence based trials that showed any significant detriment to the kidney's and liver?

A quick PubMed scan indicated studies of the effects in kidney/liver transplant patients, but I didn't dig any deeper.  Presumably your familiar with the literature already?

I was familiar with the literature in about 1991 when I did a disertation style thing on dietary supplements and 'training' specifically in body-builders and there were a couple of papers about reduction in kidney function and sclerosis of the kidney and dietary supplements, but I can't recall any detail.

I'm just amazed that people consider that supplements are needed over and above a good diet and sensible training regime

[GCW]

This is one of the better papers looking at diet and performance (albeit bicycling in this instance), if you get the full article it may help.
Related Articles, LinksRowlands DS, Rössler K, Thorp RM, Graham DF, Timmons BW, Stannard SR, Tarnopolsky MA.  Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2008 Feb;33(1):39-51

[Paul B]

I'm just amazed that people consider that supplements are needed over and above a good diet and sensible training regime

They don't hence the name "supplement"

[slackline]

I'm just amazed that people consider that supplements are needed over and above a good diet and sensible training regime

Aye, the best supplement in my book is  (but then thats probably why I'm shite  )

[Houdini]

Sensible regimes?

If I could find a suppliment that would allow me to heal overnight - I would run a half marathon every morning.

Beats doing the crossword, innit?

[Paul B]

I personally feel that a lot of these threads re: supplements appear because people are looking for some kind of wonder solution (no offense meant to the OP)...

[carefultorque]

Frankly, if reciting passages from the Necronomicom backwards near a pregnant budgie under a full moon at midnight worked I've have a crack at that too.

You mean you haven't tried it?  It works even with a dead budgie.

[Ena]

I used to find it extremely beneficial but the benefits vary from person to person.

Don't you have to really over-indulge in order to cause liver and kidney damage?

I tried it (looking for quick wins!) but stopped when after the loading phase I started pissing blood for no diagnosed reason. It sort of put me off, that and putting on 2kg in 2 weeks. I'd avoid it...

[Paul B]

I've never pissed blood, you're the first person who I know who has mentioned this kind of side effect. The first time i used creatine it was cheap stuff and i needed loads of water and spent most of a training session running out of the woodie for a piss.

[Ena]

I can't say it was definitely the creatine, but I had a stack of tests/scans and nothing else was found. It made me feel pumped for days after training, and I did put on some weight which came off (sadly only the extra 2kg) when I stopped.

[Paul B]

so the weight was pretty much water loading, which i've never really suffered from...Not a good experience you had then 

[account_inactive]

It must have been a long time Sloper

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0084.htm

Creatine is referred to as 'gold standard' in the world of ergogenic aids

Whether it's going to help your climbing is another matter.....

[Adam Lincoln]

I tried this early this year. I didn't do the loading stage, so was hoping not to gain weight. However i did feel heavier, though i did feel stronger but was probably placebo.... I stopped after i started gaining weight.

[Bubba]

I never used the powder, only the serum - no loading necessary, just drink a bit 5 mins before you need it.

[fatdoc]

I never used the powder, only the serum - no loading necessary, just drink a bit 5 mins before you need it.

serum doesnt give you water retention either.... get the stuff that's creatine only, no added fatbuster or caffeine - the combo stuff used to give me a belter of a headache!

[a dense loner]

nobody loads anymore, it's 2008. if you want to spend your time just climbing then i don't know how good it is, but if you want to spend the other time you have doing things uncle frowns on as well then i would take it.

[leek_lad]

Is creatine beneficial in climbing?
if not, what is it meant for?
worth taking?

cheers

Andy

#

Creatine is one of the widely researched supplements. Lots of evidence to suggest that it is useful for explosive, anaerobic movement which could potentially be very useful to a boulderer. Used by athletes both professional and amateur. If you do as it says in the directions and follow a loading phase expect to put on a few kilos in a short space of time which will hinder your climbing for sure albeit short term. If you do your research you'll find that it can be just as effective to ignore the directions and go with a smaller dose several times per day. I never heard of anyone having liver problems from creatine though I have heard of someone using creatine ethyl ester having kidney trouble but it seems to be the minority. It is well known in the strength athlete / body building world that creatine should be cycled. e.g. 1 month on 1 month off to give your body a rest.

Having said that if you drink 8 pints every friday & saturday night then creatine supplementation is the least of your worries.

Hope that helps.