[Bonjoy]

The consensus is its borderline. Either make it the easiest 7c+ or the hardest 7c.

The list is in order of appearance on the crag rather than difficulty order.
 I'm inclined to keep BP as the very bottom of 7c+ at the mo, but pretty undecided. Need more opinions.

[cofe]

a line as strong as Help the young SS should get 8a. if not it's a tragedy like all those great looking 7a's that are given 6c+.

[Ru]

I think many would not argue with Danny's at 7c+
 Didn't James give Westwood 7c+? I don't think the broken hold adds much difficulty.
 Strictly speaking the Roaches is not one of the eastern edges.
 Help The Young SS sans block is listed as 8a and given a fat star. With block it gets 7c+ and a thin star
 How hard for Hat's For Weasels low start, 7c?

I know James gave Westwood 7c+, but I personally thought it was 8a, and didn't Moon and other people find it hard? To be honest I never actually managed the sitter, I only ever did it from standing (not a jump), at a grade or so easier than the sitter.

Fair point about the Roaches.

HFW Low might be easy 7c.

[dave]

i've done that low cave start moves that Ru is on about on weasels - good moves, but probably unlikely to notch the grade a full mark, especially as HFW is probably bottoming 7b+ as it is (although it may be harder since that lip hold broke, so what i've just written may be bollocks).

[BenF]

Johnny's right about Dick williams as well, its a lot easier now than it used to be. Maybe bottom end 7b+

Did this at the weekend and concur.  Pretty easy 7b+ but harder than just about every 7b that I can think of that I've done on grit.  Stick it down the lower end of the 7b+'s.

What about Classic Arete at B. South? 7a rather than 7a+

It's graded for staying turning the arete very low, which is fair at 7a+ I think. I think some folk do easier variants.

I turned the arete dead low and found it an easy 7a+, but still 7a+ I guess.

Hamper's Hang - yup, put it up to 7a+.

Electrical Storm - likewise, take it up a notch. 

[Bonjoy]

Will keep Dick Williams at 7b+ I think. Partly because the way shorties have to do it looks solid at the grade

[BenF]

Partly because the way shorties have to do it looks solid at the grade

Yeah, maybe I should get 7c+ 'cos obviously my stumpy legs don't help me rock onto the ledge?   

[Andy Harris]

A few from me:
Blind Drunk original (left toe on edge) is 8a.
Blind Drunk new method (left heel on lip) is 7c.
I hate to say it but the new method is much better and easier than the old. However most problems on this block are eliminates so how do you grade them.

Same for Submergence, orignal method 7c+, new method with heel 7b+.

Agree to upgrade Blind Fury to 7c+- still awaiting a 2nd ascent you sloper monsters

Always thought Danny's problem was hard (7c+) and how the top move warrants only 7a+ I don't know. You only have to pull on the smallest holds at Stanage for gods sake, with perfect conditions. I know if you start with RH high and LH low it's a lot easier, as is the sitter. Sure this is how steve did his big traverse.

The Beast at 7b+, can't argue with that.

Back in the YMCA 7b+ for sure.

People seem to downgrade Intense but think they jump the 1st move rather than pull on?

Is the wall right of breakfast (burb w) really only 7c?

If westworld pebble method isn't 8a i'm retiring now.

that's enough from me

[Bonjoy]

So the uneliminate version of Blind Drunk for the man of average size is only 7c?
I agree the heel sequence on Submergence is much easier than the old way, but I still reckon it warrants 7c.
Confused. I thought Intense was originally done with the jump, but is easier if you stack pads or are tall enough to get the holds without jumping. Is this incorrect?
The pebble method (static way) on Westworld is noted as 8a on list.

[dave]

has anyone done intense from a proper start on the low slot? this would be monster and an amazing problem - as it is now it reeks of unfinished biz.

[Bonjoy]

No

[dave]

Did anyone even think to show sharma this project? I would wager not. For fucks sake people, come on.

[Andy Harris]

I’m glad Westworld is still 8a. I will rip up my letter of resignation.

Maybe I was mistaken about Intense. Dave you are right the ss will go but will be hard (8a+/b). Thank god nobody showed Sharma it. It looked a little bit like the V12 crux of Chillam Ballam, but not after 2h and 9a+’s worth of climbing.

Blind Drunk heel method really is only 7c. I was amazed how much easier it was. Ie. it took me 3 goes  in 5mins vs many tries over the years of the original method.

[abarro81]

Early doors seems 7a+ to me
I thought Dick Williams felt like soft 7b+ but probably worth the grade; Zaff's is easier (hard 7b?) and I'm utterly inflexible (but tall which might help).
Mossatrocity didn't really feel hard enough to be 7c to me, but I'm happy to take the grade if other think it is. (Incidentally, I discovered I could do it without the hard last move of bringing the toe in by going again with my LH from the crack to the top then keep slapping rightwards with it until you get a bit good enough to match. It didn't feel like a tall-person-only sequence but then it never does until my short mates discover otherwise and get pissed off.)
Fact hunt - hard 7a+

[Nigel]

Blind Drunk heel method really is only 7c. I was amazed how much easier it was. Ie. it took me 3 goes  in 5mins vs many tries over the years of the original method.

I agree with Andy on this, for me it felt like 7c. However, I would put it in as 7c+ just because people who are creaming 7c's still can't do it even with this beta. Maybe they just aren't trying hard enough though. Might have to wait a while for a consensus to emerge? Whatever, it can't go in as 8a because then you're just grading for a wack sequence a la dynoing Brad Pit at B13.

[Doylo]

Is Danny's graded for the easy sequence or for the original beta?

[The Sausage]

i think the thing with Zaff's is... where do you start. if you start with left heel in the pocket, left hand low on left arete, right hand on lowest part of the flake (ie, so to start, you have to move your left hand up first, then bring your right heel on to bump your right hand up), then it is definitely 7b+. i think with problems of this type - low, steep prows - it is perfectly acceptable, or even preferential, to stipulate starting holds.
suavito i think is 7b. giza, top end 7b. walnut whip traverse thing 7b tops (that's even missing out the big flat hold).
overall, i like the idea of establishing consensus. bouldering grades are so subjective that the only way to get a reasonable idea is to have a lot of opinions.

[Andy B]

Slingshot – 7c+

Blind Drunk (reach past sequence) – 7c+ (7c)

Westworld (static sequence) – 7c+(8a)

Fuck. I can't believe there are going to be even fewer quality 8a's to go at.

[cofe]

i think the thing with Zaff's is... where do you start.

think most cats are on about zafs at savage garden being 7b. for 7c for zafs sctodxnzmakdndfmndlnkannlas you need to be starting both hands in the pocket. 7b+ just starts sitting one hand on arete, one on ramp.

[cowboyhat]

Please don't downgrade Brad Pit, I think its desperate.

How will Dense feel if you downgrade Danny's?

[Johnny Brown]

On La Terrace - Westie made a very quick ascent this afternoon. Now he's going well, but it did make me wonder... I told him the top of The Terrace is out for the full tick - I take it this is how it was done originally Ru?

Whatever, it can't go in as 8a because then you're just grading for a wack sequence a la dynoing Brad Pit at B13.

I don't think anything should have split grades for alternative methods. Grade for the easiest sequence. I realise this may upset Arthur but I've never seen him even try the jump on Westworld. I daresay he'd moan if I'd dynoed The Brazilian and proposed and upgrade?

[Jim]

I didn't realise that cowboy hat jr was so advanced

[Bonjoy]

Is Danny's graded for the easy sequence or for the original beta?

I'm going on other peoples word, as I've never tried it. I assume when they talk grades for it they are talking about the easiest sequence.
Sausage - Like the man says, I hadn't any intention of changing grades on Zaf Scochylazlowmillbrowhorsecake
Cowboyhat - The talk is of upgrading Danny's prob. I'm sure Dense will be ecstatic

[Jim]

Blimey, where to start...

Right then, do people honestly think that early doors is harder then Gorilla? Its certainly much easier than handy andy's at earl. 7a is fair I think for ED

Dissolution - at rowtor with the hold snappage that 'arris was trying with the dirty mono t'other weekend? has it been done since hold breakage, strikes me as being at least 7c

Sidetrack - its definatley harder than trackside but I don't think it warrents 7a+, maybe very bottom end. I've only ever seen 2 other people do this and I had to show then both the beta (one was JB  )

Dick williams is definatley probably hard 7b as is Zaffs. I'm suprised JB didn't mention the 1st accent of DW was climbed like a metronome. How do shorties have to climb it Jon?

The rib at 7b, although top end also gets my vote although I have to pull really hard on that sideways crimp

good call on upgrading electrical storm

The thing with rambeau is, it looks obvious to jump start it. The proper start ain't that much harder although I haven't done the top bit

classic arete at burbage earl is very easy for 7a+ turning it low down, propably more like 7a, 6c+ staying on the front IMO
The triangular block problem here should be upgraded to at least 9d

Domes I forget

come on, I remember you having a tantrum cos you fell off the top on the flash and did it easily 2nd go and still having a tantrum

I think HTY ss should be 8a and as I discussed with Johnny, the bottom block should be turfed over

Is the start to hampers hang in that cave round the corner, if so, haven't you lot nothing better to try?

Mossatrocity didn't really feel hard enough to be 7c to me, but I'm happy to take the grade if other think it is. (Incidentally, I discovered I could do it without the hard last move of bringing the toe in by going again with my LH from the crack to the top then keep slapping rightwards with it until you get a bit good enough to match. It didn't feel like a tall-person-only sequence but then it never does until my short mates discover otherwise and get pissed off.)

I thought that the last move might go this way but was pretty tired when trying it breifly a few weeks ago, will try this when next back on it. I think its definatley 7c for effort though

I think that Zaff skypsycnksnvk prob at bbg north should be graded from sitting with hands on the pinch and the rail, althougth I haven't done it yet so can't offer a grade

[Ru]

On La Terrace - Westie made a very quick ascent this afternoon. Now he's going well, but it did make me wonder... I told him the top of The Terrace is out for the full tick - I take it this is how it was done originally Ru?

Use the holds under the apex of the roof, but not the top-top. For my money it's half a grade harder than the Terrace.