[ferret]

As to whether these grades match font grades in Font, who knows. It’s my view that font grades in Font are all over the place anyway, so this goal is inherently pretty unachievable.

just wot are we supposed to be matching the grades too?

[r-man]

Right then, do people honestly think that early doors is harder then Gorilla? Its certainly much easier than handy andy's at earl.

easy 7b for handy andy's in my book, basic but hard pulling.

Hence, ED is 7a+.

Yes, Early Doors is at least a grade harder than gorilla warfare. People with big hands seem to find it easy though. Do you have big hands?

[Jim]

I have sausage fingers but find Ed easier than GW. I also find it 2 grades easier than handy andy's
I vote GW & ED = 7a, HA - 7b

[Johnny Brown]

Use the holds under the apex of the roof, but not the top-top. For my money it's half a grade harder than the Terrace.

Good job I pointed that out to Sam, he'd have the tippex out now if not. 7c+ then?

I'm not sure Handy Andy's is the problem to compare gorilla too, they're hardly similar?

[etjoset]

From the original list:

Sidetrack - 7a (max)
Tracking (no crack for feet) - 7b+ (but only 7b if you can outreach the slopey crux)
Electrical Storm 7a+ (but top end)
Early Doors 7a+ (but bottom end)
Nigel's Problem 7a+ (just)

Not from the original list but an ever popular discussion topic:

Zaff Scozywotsit - most logical from a sitter but then probably only 7b if you're of average stature or greater, the crux being deciding which holds you're allowed/supposed to start with.

[andy_e]

I'm not sure Handy Andy's is the problem to compare gorilla too, they're hardly similar?

Plus one's amazing and the other's shit.

[dave]

sidetrack is about same grade as trackside but a hell of a lot more conditioney.

[Kingy]

Here's my 2p's worth:

Brad Pit, very tough 7c
Zaf's Problem 7b
Dick W 7b (this is no harder than Zaf's now the pocket/ crimp has appeared since FA)
The Terrace 7c
**H top is defo 7b as per BMC guide. I would wager the sit to be 7c+ as its frikkin ard!
Sidetrack 7a+ as its tricky to start if you're under 6' plus its miles harder than Trackside IMO.
Rambeau - felt fair for soft 7b with jump but not done the pulling on start so dunno really
Suavito, am I the only person who finds this hard? I thought 7b+ even without the height factor, surely harder than Dick Williams?? You've gotta do a full on powerful slap for the top of the crag off a low crimpy sidepull with a dicey heel.
Burbage triangular block thingy, at least 7a, sessioned this a couple of years back and left empty handed!! ???
Submergence with heel, 7c?? Felt as hard as Brad pit and the Terrace.


 

[Bonjoy]

As to whether these grades match font grades in Font, who knows. It’s my view that font grades in Font are all over the place anyway, so this goal is inherently pretty unachievable.

just wot are we supposed to be matching the grades too?

Ok, I don’t think I explained myself properly.
Ultimately the theoretical aim is to match to all the correctly graded problems in the rest of the Peak, UK, Font, and the rest of the world. Rather than trying to grade match specific problems with examples done in font, we accept that the grades are there or there abouts already correct in the Peak and try to iron out the discrepancies. The problem with thought matching with font probs is that the grades are IMO less consistent than the grading in the UK, at any given grade there are examples which are utter sandbags and total gifts. The understandable honey-potting of soft touches by visiting brits serves to skew things further.
 Put another way world grades are good for defining the general boundaries of the grades, but beyond that it’s easier(more accurate) to make individual grade calls based on comparison between local/national problems. I’d say the approximate boundaries of Peak grades are already in pretty much the right place. To finish the job (as much as is possible) I think it’s more helpful to compare between probs within the same list and on the same rock.
 If my premise is incorrect at least the list will be as close to internally consistent as can be hoped for and could in theory be shifted up or down grade as a whole should people really believe we are out of step with other countries.

[Scouse D]

The '7a' left of heartland is mighty tough if it indeed does start on the low jug pocket. Myself and Dave felt it were more like 7b.
Honestly now it reaslly isn't 7a.

[dave]

i mean despite being injured and just having had 2 weeks off and only a very brief warmup on slabs i would generally still expect to eat peices of shit like short slappy overhanging grit 7as for breakfast. its cerpantly a fair bit harder than marks roof LH.

[Bonjoy]

The guide doesn't say if it uses the low block for feet or not. With the block it feels very soft 7a or lower, without it feels over 7a. I had it down as 7a+ sans block. Will change to 7b as the 7a+ was a guess.
Regards Sidetrack and Early Doors. Nine out of ten find Sidetrack the harder of the two. If Early Door is going to get 7a+, which people seem to be demanding, then Sidetrack will also go in as 7a+

[Scouse D]

Sans block is the only way I think.

[Jim]

I didn't even consider the low block (low stocks of valium), I didn't quite manage this problem but would certainly agree its around the 7b mark, Did all the move apart from releasing the heel/toe hook/lock thing from being matched on the lip

I really think that GW ED trackside and sidetrack are all 7a, maybe hard 6c+ for trackside

[Bonjoy]

How much of Trackside feeling 6c+ is down to familiarity? I think Sidetrack is 7a+ (bottom end), Early Doors is 7a (top end) and Trackside benchmark 7a, but i'm leaning towards giving ED 7a+ based on other peoples opinions.

[Doylo]

treckside is 7a but is pretty easy once you've done it once. Monsieur Lebreton don't piss it in HTTP.BLOC 

[Ru]

The grade in the book was without the footblock. Having revisited the problem I think it is worth 7a+/b.

[Steamboat Stello]

Early doors - if GW is middling 7a then ED is 7a+ cos it's a notch harder in my mind.

Just to throw another few spanners in, both at Baslow - Dirty Bitch: Has this now been heavily downgraded to 6c? Also Hurry on sundown sitter (ace problem). 7a+? I would vote 7a max.

[Andy B]

Sans block is the only way I think.

Ditto.

I didn't even consider the low block

Ditto.

I thought that the crux of this was taking my heel toe out, without swinging off the hand holds.

I'm trying hard not to be drawn into the grading ruckus, but on a quality note I thought that both this problem and Heartland are really good problems, despite being full lie down starts, and both climbed much better than they look. Not as pokey or grovelly as I expected, but with nice flowing sequences, once worked out.

[Jim]

I thought that the crux of this was taking my heel toe out, without swinging off the hand holds.

Agreed, it was pretty greasy conditions when I tried this and didn't quite manage to stay on

[Bonjoy]

Andy - It'll be interesting to see how the grades on my list compare to the grades on your list!

[Andy B]

I have changed very few grades in my list from the ones given in guides, articles etc. as I didn't think one persons thoughts on particular grades was enough to change them (as you clearly agree, hence this thread) even though some, like Hats for Weasels for example, were clearly way out. So instead I included markers for problems that I thought would probably go up or down. The most common grades I changed were problems that were given 6's that I felt confident were actually 7's so as to at least include them in the list for consideration.

[abarro81]

I think hurry on sundown sitter is probably worth 7a+. The stand is piss and never 7a.
Also I think For a Few Beagles More is 7a+ not 7b, but then that's probably just cos I'm tall.

[Jim]

Did anyone even think to show sharma this project? I would wager not. For fucks sake people, come on.

Fuck sharma, he's good, but not that good. Someone should give james a kick up the arse to start clearing up.
I might do it myself this afternoon

[grimer]

Mike Lea did The Beast with Neil 'The Whisper' Travs, and said he found it ok, implying he found it easier than he expected, and, from my chalk-infested Works memory, comparable in grade to Rambeau on Curbar.