[webbo]

Sorles link is at least V8+ and harder again if you are short, I found a mathematical equation for link ups that goes like this V7+V8=15 add 4 then divide by 2 which gives a V9/10 grade, Iv`e tried this equation with loads of other link ups and It`s pretty accurate to within half a grade. So there you go maths say`s V9/10 and maths don`t lie

i'm with this all the way.

when i workout some of my links v6 into v1 into v1 into v6=14+4 divided by 2 =9.i never realised i was that good.

[Jaspersharpe]

But that's four sections so divide by 4 and you get 4.5........er.......

[superfurrymonkey]

Weird thing is if you do a V6 into a V1 you lose half a grade

[superfurrymonkey]

Although I did so it was accurate to within half a grade so that`s ok then

[GCW]

Although I did so it was accurate to within half a grade so that`s ok then

So how about a V10 into a V1? 

[superfurrymonkey]

Although I did so it was accurate to within half a grade so that`s ok then

So how about a V10 into a V1? 

bugger!

[superfurrymonkey]

Ok it wont work with grades under V6 I think.

[GCW]

Ok it wont work with grades under V6 I think.

V13 into V6= V11.5 

I see your point, and it's not often you get a hard problem going into an easy problem.
I'd wonder how your system would work for something like the Craig Y Longridge Traverse.   

[Houdini]

The lowest V-grade of the two must be minimum 2 under the higher V-grade for the total to be increased.  eg:

V12 + V11 = V13/14
V12 + V10 = V13
V12 + V9  = V12

Well, that's my understanding of the algebra.

[Paz]

It's not going to be linear, come on.  We need to define the grade as the integral of some function f along the sequence (or motion/ trajectory). Now f has to be positive or zero becuase you can't add on more moves to a problem and make it easier.  f basically has the dimensions of V grade per metre, but it has some sort of history dependence as you know how hard what you've done so far is.  I propose that two V4s one after other other with a cup of tea in the middle are, wait for it :V4.  But this will obviously cause less climbing arguments using the english technical system, which is just like some sort of infinity norm - the maximum of what you've done.  

[GCW]

The lowest V-grade of the two must be a maximum of 2 under the higher V-grade for the total to be increased.  eg:

V12 + V11 = V13/14
V12 + V10 = V13
V12 + V9  = V12

You are quite right, which is why it won't work for
1.  Grades below V6
2.  Grades where V_a - V_b > +/-2
3.  Links of more than 2 problems- although I suppose you could add 2x number of linked problems divided by number of linked problems:

eg  V6 + V7 + V8->  [6+7+8+(2x3)]/3= 27/3 = V9

or are we going a bit silly here?

[Johnny Brown]

No, keep at it. Could be on the verge of a major break through to put an end to all arguments. And at last an advantage to V grades has been found!

[Paz]

Yeah.  Two may not be the right number to subtract but you're just trying to say something like if you're a V12 climber then V10 is a rest to you.

[Houdini]

eg  V6 + V7 + V8->  [6+7+8+(2x3)]/3= 27/3 = V9 or are we going a bit silly here?

Certainly are, everyone knows V6 + 7 + 8 = V8+ 

[superfurrymonkey]

3.  Links of more than 2 problems- although I suppose you could add 2x number of linked problems divided by number of linked problems:

eg  V6 + V7 + V8->  [6+7+8+(2x3)]/3= 27/3 = V9

or are we going a bit silly here?

Where there`s more than two problems work out the value for the first two then do the same for the third.
 V11+V9+4=24/2=V12 say Pilgrim then that into Clyde is V12+V11+4=27/2=V13.5 or perhaps V14 

[superfurrymonkey]

eg  V6 + V7 + V8->  [6+7+8+(2x3)]/3= 27/3 = V9 or are we going a bit silly here?

Certainly are, everyone knows V6 + 7 + 8 = V8+ 

I get V10 my way

[Kingy]

Left wall high is a soft V9, about 8a/+  routes grade. Still easier than this latest linkup in my opinion. I've always viewed staminaband as v8+ to get to powerband and then a V9 (Powerband).

Interesting stuff. Yes i guess SB is much easier than Powerband if you think about it, compared to that orrible last move. Once you've got SB wired, the very start must be V8 as its well tricky (right heel seems to work) but the undercuts section is only V6 IMO if you hit on a good sequence. I don't believe people like John Welford who said SB is the living end and that he's only ever managed to do the start 4 times!!

Tried Left wall recently and there is nothing as hard as Powerband on there and the footholds are quite big in places but its a bit of a pumper...

[Doylo]

I don't believe people like John Welford who said SB is the living end and that he's only ever managed to do the start 4 times!!

yeah i don't buy that either, its not that hard. The hard thing about Staminaband is that friggin pocket drop down right at the end!

[Kingy]

yeah i don't buy that either, its not that hard. The hard thing about Staminaband is that friggin pocket drop down right at the end!

Agreed, I just copy Spoony with the outside left edge on a little spike before reaching down into the pocket but its a bit of a grunt!

[Jaspersharpe]

I always found the hard bit on the link on Staminaband was the move in the middle of Powerband holding the resin edge and reaching down to the pocket. Never fell off if I got past that. Think that's because it was the endurance crux for me and there's a rest before the last move. I've never been fit.

No, keep at it. Could be on the verge of a major break through to put an end to all arguments. And at last an advantage to V grades has been found!

Just what I was thinking reading this thread.

Perhaps V grades should only be used for long problems and link ups. That way you'd have a system solely for these type of things for which neither route grades nor font grades work. Plus you'd have an end to the argument as to which system to use for "normal" problems. 

[Bonjoy]

I always found the hard bit on the link on Staminaband was the move in the middle of Powerband holding the resin edge and reaching down to the pocket. Never fell off if I got past that. Think that's because it was the endurance crux for me and there's a rest before the last move. I've never been fit.

If this was quite a few years back the middle of Powerband WAS the crux of Stamband. The footholds are a lot bigger now and this bit is pretty easy. Anyone who doubts this should go check the crappy little polished holds next to the big positive ones.

[Jaspersharpe]

Yeah I'm talking 15 years ago. Have only been back once since and I wasn't strong enough to even notice the footholds had changed. When did that happen then and how?

[Houdini]

Well I've been using H-grades for some time now and they fit everything perfectly . . .   For me.   

[Ru]

Yeah I'm talking 15 years ago. Have only been back once since and I wasn't strong enough to even notice the footholds had changed. When did that happen then and how?

Nothing sinister, bits have just fallen off.

[Kingy]

When did that happen then and how?

Best talk to Andy Harris about this. A big left foothold mysteriously appeared on the drop down to the pocket taking a lot of body tension out of the move. Also the low foothold used for reaching the resin pinch from the undercut slot has somehow crumbled away and got bigger.