[Dave Westlake]

Hello,

I recently discovered that there is a small board and campus board set up where i work (i work at a university)

The board is covered in jugs, which is the exact opposite of the board i train on in the evenings (which is full of small wooden crimps).

I thought that some days (maybe twice a week) I might go for a session of circuits on the uni board during my lunch hour and then train in the evenings as usual.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this and do you think it would be very beneficial?  or is it more likely to be be counter productive?  Obviously, injury is a big consideration, but the circuit trainiing would be quite different to the training i do in the evenings (i.e. 30-40 moves on jugs instead of 5 moves on crimps)

Any thoughts appreciated!  Thanks in advance 

Dave

[Jaspersharpe]

http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,8316.0.html

[nathan wind]

I do it sometimes, especially if the weathers bad and I cant face the wall (in truth I can rarely face going to the wall so I usually train on my board..),

Basically I do the most powerful session first, ie problems or system based stuff, usually 3-5 move probs on small crimps, most probs being in the english 6c range (the boards about 50 degrees).. after a few hours rest I might come back and do circuits on the board (current circuit is 17 moves at about v3/4.. go up on ok holds, come down on jugs, go back up the ok holds.. finish across the cellar roof on big holds).. usually do between 5/7 reps with quite strictly timed rest in between. can work really well..  however I'd only do this when I know I've got a rest day to follow.. sometimes I'll follow up a first problems based board sesh with a fingerboard sesh later in the day if I don't fancy the circuits... all depending on wether I want train power or endurance..

If I've been outside on a project or had quite a short sesh, I might do a systems based sesh on the board or use the fingerboard for an hour later that day aswell..

Have found both the above can really help.. though I'd never try and make them part of a weekly training plan or anything similar, doubling up sessions in a day only seems to work for me if I do it on an adhoc basis..

Hope this helps..

[Houdini]

Sounds like you are killing boredom.  Why not cross-train as a second session and introduce yourself to the hard actuality of fact:  better cardio will improve your bouldering, not massively, but discernably.

[webbo]

most evidence says cross training has little benefit except when you are a triathlete.

[account_inactive]

Cardio may help you keep your weight in check and aid recovery between sessions

[Kingy]

I would say in my experience, rather than a massive amount in one day, the maxim 'little and often' holds true in this case. So two two hour sessions on consecutive days will be of more benefit than two two hour sessions on the same day where you end up fully worked. Just look at Davie G who climbs a little but for maybe 5 to 6 days on at a time...the key is he stops strong each session. Then when you do take rest you emerge much stronger. Obviously working and other commitments will make it difficult to climb more than 4 days a week but I think these are the principles at work here.

[Doylo]

training twice a day didn't do simpson any harm, in fact it got him up three 9a's. mind you i'm sure this would leave some people broken.

[nathan wind]

Cardio is the one thing I don't do enough, yet I know it really helps my bouldering...

During a six year break from climbing I got really into martial arts and on the occasions where I've mixed martial arts based cardio training routines with training for bouldering and just bouldering itself I've definately climbed harder and felt generally stronger and fitter.. one of the biggest problems for me is sticking with the cardio / arts training.. if its  a nice day I'm always going to head for the blocs!!

Basically I think cardio is really important, gets plenty of fresh blood to tired muscles, sorts your breathing out, helps you sustain hard sessions on the blocs.. keeps the weight down...

In fact, thinking about it, I'm off for a run! Its pissing down in Huddersfield, Caley will be wet....

[saltbeef]

today I'm going to train twice in a day. have just been at the wall and my finger skin can take no more. my body however is in need of some hammer so I'm gonna do some pullups and ab work. after i've tidied the living room and done the washing up...

[Houdini]

If cross training means training a secondary thang and not one primary thang then I'll stick my head above the parapet and say the following:

Attaching myself to a powerball this last year has made a world of difference to my hanging-in potential.  Whilst I may have lacked the brutism to lunge between large pinch I've found it extremely easy to lock my grip on powerball-width-esque pinches (even hanging footless & one-handed) - get my feet on - and faggot my way through the moves to victory.

Skipping has given me great mantling ability, and general stamina gains:  I mean forearm/grip gains here as well as the ability to be a duracell bunny.  Open handed forearm-ism. 

I would venture further and suggest that next to no-one is doing research on bouldering, because ah... what's bouldering?  Exactly!  This is not snowboarding/skateboarding or any other activity on the tip of the tongue of Joe Public.  Joe Public has no fucking idea what bouldering is, and untill the time that Joe Public does the evidence will suggest diddly-squat (as no-one is making it).

There's more hardcore cardio out there than triathletism.

[webbo]

using a powerball is hardly cross training.it is probably actually specific grip training.
what i meant in that cross training being counter productive.is when the other activity has no specific gains for the main activity and in some cases may actually effect performance.i.e.cycling if i've done 80miles the day before climbing my hamstrings are fit for fuck all and my quads cramp out.

[Houdini]

I'm sure you're right. 

I think there are plenty of reasons one would not wish to train the same muscle groups in one day.  #1 injury #2 injury #3 injury etc..

Saltbeef's smart:  Abs over biceps/shoulders.   How many super-strong people do you see that make a dyno then allow their body tension to crumble and watch their legs fall back and drag them off the handholds.  I've seen this on one V14 boulderer too many times . . .    If only he would train his guts (which is hard, I know it hurts, as do calves . . .)

[chappers]

dave,
as you well know, i used to just train for climbing and go climbing. then i moved to preston and started to train at boulder uk. i started to get ok at bouldering, but i ended up not being able to improve, untill recently, since i took up running (again), and to a greater extent cycling my climbing has come on leaps and bounds.
i have pretty much packed in training for climbing in favor of the bike (when my trip to the pyrenees is over that will change), but i am better at climbing.

so that made no sense, what i am trying to say is...go for a run on your lunchbreak and then go on wood in the evening. but, i know you too well, you wont go for a run even once, instead you will do your two session day, so i ask the question: "why the fuck did you bother asking in the first place?"

[Paul B]

dave,
as you well know, i used to just train for climbing and go climbing. then i moved to preston and started to train at boulder uk. i started to get ok at bouldering, but i ended up not being able to improve, untill recently, since i took up running (again), and to a greater extent cycling my climbing has come on leaps and bounds.
i have pretty much packed in training for climbing in favor of the bike (when my trip to the pyrenees is over that will change), but i am better at climbing.

Is that first paragraph meant to suggest that cycling/running helped you bust through a plateau or did the two things just coincide?

[Houdini]

(Webbo - oh guru - I think I was too quick to agree w/ you.  I'm certain p/balls are not just specific grip training.  It could be if you wanted it, mind.  I've not long had a 1/2 hr session on my ball over a variety of positions.  (See Akis link on p/ball thread).  I feel that every muscle from my wrist to the shoulder groups has had a workout.  It will only train your grip if you are into nailing it hard as the torque generated will force one to hold it harder.  I'm talking about 9K rpm in all positions, I don't need to hold it that hard when I'm isolating my bicep, just keep it moving and work that muscle.)

Dave, listen to Chappers, he talks sense.  When I stopped tabbing and took up biking I couldn't believe how much better my power endurance got.  It really surprised me.  W/ running, well I do believe how many kilo I've lost (as I weigh myself daily), mostly it has been from my port-fiend botty and thighs (which it where it sits for me).  Pulls ups/muscle ups/one-armers are easier now.

But there's another facet to cardio that gets too easily overlooked:  Psychological well-being.  Speaking as a fighter and a lover - w/ the running/skipping and swimming I do I feel so much more alive; more ready for it; stronger in mind as well as body.  I feel I can push myself harder mentally that ever before, and that means ultimately breaking physical barriers.  For example:  I ran for 16 miles last Friday.  After 12 I was fucking sick of it, but I was a long way from home and had no cash or the mind to jump the trains and risk a €40 fine.  I set my mind too it:  just focus hard and keep moving, I really had to push through some sharp pain behind my R kneecap but I found I could block it out and remain focused on the job at hand so much easier than when I started running.  Before, I'd flash up at loads of nebulous shit, fuck all really.  Now I laugh it off w/ ease and have stopped wanting to nail people in the face when they're fishing for a weak spot and a reaction.  Life is good.

If you don't want to run then jog, skip, ride, swim.  It'll do your heart the world of good: you might live longer; you'll breath deeper; it could very well set you up mentally to focus better on your bouldering goals.  Boulderers tend to be the obsessive-type, often they'll come down very hard on themselves (mentally) when they don't live up to their expectations - sometimes failure has made me push on into injury.  No more of that for me thanks.  I can't imagine this is a good space to be in psychologically.  Stress kills.

Anyway, essay over and try not to grind yourself into the dust.

[Duma]

Like Houdini said, cardio is good, do some.

[chappers]

dave,
as you well know, i used to just train for climbing and go climbing. then i moved to preston and started to train at boulder uk. i started to get ok at bouldering, but i ended up not being able to improve, untill recently, since i took up running (again), and to a greater extent cycling my climbing has come on leaps and bounds.
i have pretty much packed in training for climbing in favor of the bike (when my trip to the pyrenees is over that will change), but i am better at climbing.

Is that first paragraph meant to suggest that cycling/running helped you bust through a plateau or did the two things just coincide?

i think that they helped, maybe because i put less pressure on myself climbing wise so when i went out and was doing a few 7bs (good for me) in a few goes every day it was surprising.
also the weight loss must help. (i might get some scales).