[dave k]

Where are your feet allowed/not allowed? Ru mention the foot ramp which is not allowed and staff guide says not to use the slab on the right.

So for the first move where do your feet start?

I start matched on the flake, with both feet on the rock/ramp left of the arete- should I be eliminating those feet and starting hanging with a high left toe/heal.

I would prefer comments from people who have actually done it, rather than people who haven`t.

[GCW]

I assume you mean Stall?

[a dense loner]

if it's stall you're on about the people i know who've done it used the rock/ramp left of the arete. i apologise for never having tried it, but my orbital sockets work just as well when i'm watching something being done

[dave k]

Oops yes i mean stall- was in a bit of a rush

Cheers for the info both of you.

Only said the bit about people who had done it as previously I have gotten lots comments from people with little/no knowledge of the actual problems in question.

Thanks again

[cofe]

So for the first move where do your feet start?

not on the ramp. i haven't done it.

[Somebody's Fool]

Cofe's on the money.  The whole ramp is out.  I haven't done it either.

[AndiT]

Ramp is out, all else is in. I use left hand on flake hold and right on a really wide pinch at the base of the arete itself. I also have my bum on the deck but my right foot up on the foothold that you use to start the stand up, feels really awkward at first but all comes in as soon as you start to pull on. Look at me, I have done it.

[dave k]

Cheers for the info

Still a worthy sit start using the ramp left of the arete. Not 7c though

Andy: Ru says you should start with both hands on the flake, would that make the way you start it tricky? I had my feet out left to enable me to pull on matching the flake (when trying it without the ramp).

Ahh the joys of eliminate sit starts!

 

[Ru]

As above - the whole ramp is out. I started matched on the flake to the left, this probably isn't important, but it adds a move and a foot shuffle. As long as you start on your arse and finish at the top without using the ramp, it's a tick.

[AndiT]

As long as you start on your arse and finish at the top without using the ramp, it's a tick.

Amen to that.

[mini]

When me and Ollie Ryall were trying the sitter as a project many years ago we both agreed it would start from matching on the low flake, to encompass the full line. It does add a little extra, but not massively so, and since first doing it in full I now start with the flake with left hand and pinching the base of the arete with right hand. I wouldn't begrudge a tick if anyone else started as such (unless its a flash and he / she is a miserable sod).

Great problem none the less. I take it this is on your ticklist Dave?

[Ru]

When me and Ollie Ryall were trying the sitter as a project many years ago we both agreed it would start from matching on the low flake, to encompass the full line.

It was Ollie that first showed me the problem and it was he that suggested the matched-flake start - hence the guide description.

[dave k]

Sure is- to be honest I thought I did it on Sunday, but used the ramp left of the arete, so I was wrong- did feel far too easy. Certainly harder than the stand up mind.   

I bet a fare few people have done it with the ramp and claimed the tick.

Will be back soon to try again- although fin sitter needs to be done 1st!

 

[Bonjoy]

Fink sitter is good too(felt harder then Stall sitter to me though). When doing Stall sitter I worked out some good beta for the top bit - use your left foot on the good foothold on the RH side of the arete, sounds odd but it made the top bit feel loads steadier for me.

[mini]

use your left foot on the good foothold on the RH side of the arete, sounds odd but it made the top bit feel loads steadier for me.

Someone mentioned your method for doing this, and I fooking loved it! Seems so illogical, but makes the top move feel so sweet - good find!

Agreed, Fink sitter is class, one of the best problems I did last year. But harder than Stall sitter? Mmmmm, not sure about that one, but certainly a good full grade harder than Fin SS, even though Ru's guide gave Fin and Fink SS both 7b.

[Bonjoy]

 Well maybe not harder, just more brutal. I thought the hard move (I had to roar) was harder than any of the moves on Stall sitter, but Stall is still probably harder to link together. Fink sitter felt 7b+ to me and Fin sitter felt like hard 7a+

[dave k]

Got the fink sitter last week- good honest pulling on positive crimps. Powerful, but little technical nonsense. Still to do the fin sitter - 7a+ mmmm - depends on your height in my opinion- I am at absolute full extension on the first move to the pinch with the left hand (bit conditions dependant)

Will try the strange stall foot- although it is the first move that is the trouble for me- I have the upper section pretty well wired- even had snow on the good upper bit of the arete the other day and managed to avoid it.

[Bonjoy]

Don't remember Fin sitter being reachy. I'm not tall by any definition. I do remember it being much harder if you climb it bang up the middle (doesn't Sean Myles do it this hard way on an old climbing vid, maybe Stick It?)rather than using slopers and heal hooks on the left as most people do.

[dave k]

On the left?

I reach up with my left hand to to grab the open hand pinch on the bottom of the arete(reachy/powerful for me), then work my right heel upon the front face, then get my left toe on the starting left hand hold, drop to the sidepull sloper with the right hand, then go again with the right hand to the obvious hold on the arete, then either go straight up with the left hand to pinch the arete (or use the pocket round left first, then again up with the left)- then the usual standup finish.

Think this is the same way as Moon vid on moon.com

Give me easier sequences if I am missing something- seems quite powerful and certainly more insecure than the fink sitter.

[Bonjoy]

Just watched the moon vid. Yeah, that's the hard way. Can't exactly remember the easy beta but it uses the big sloper out left at the bottom of the obvious crack. I think there might be pic of Sam doing it this way near the front of Ru's guide

[dave k]

There is a picture of Sam on it, but it doesn`t really give a clue to how he got into that position. Look forward to checking it out next time I get a chance.

Do like it the way I was trying though- propper prow hugging on slpoers.

[Eddies]

That pics up at the Works, a great shot.

[Ru]

I graded the Fin sitter for the harder method, I wasn't aware of the easier way at the time.

[Johnny Brown]

That pics up at the Works, a great shot

That's this one.

(how does this right foot work then lovejoy?

I think they're on about this one:


Here's another for good measure:


Good crag.

[mini]

I graded the Fin sitter for the harder method, I wasn't aware of the easier way at the time.

There has always been an 'easiest' line for this problem from sitter, and does use more positive slopers around and left of the pinch. This is probably about right at 7a+, with the pinch eliminate at 7b as per your guide. I think originally the pinch was the hold to use, as per Myles / Moon vids, but more frequently people are obviously taking the line of least resistance.

I've always suggested that The Fin and The Fink sitters are a good example of classic 7b problems which at the extreme end of the same grade.

As for Stall sitter, originally thought 7c+ (but that was using my own duff beta  ) though bottom end 7c from the match would be fair.

[Eddies]

That's this one.

Thats it, sorry I didnt read the end of page 1.... thought they where on about Sam on Stall !!
Worth the blunder to bring up those shots tho, nice one JB 

[Bonjoy]

I graded the Fin sitter for the harder method, I wasn't aware of the easier way at the time.

Aaah, I thought this must be the case.

(how does this right foot work then lovejoy?)

Can't remember exactly. But it's LF not RF. I think it involved using foothold first with RF, then foot swapping and stepping RF onto the smear Sam is on in pic, then keeping the flagged  LF on right side of arete to curtail the barndoor for subsequent moves.

[dave]

stepping RF onto the smear Sam is on in pic, then keeping the flagged  LF on right side of arete to curtail the barndoor for subsequent moves.

this is how i do the standup, it works a treat.

[dave k]

Just been to gibb. Took me a while to work out what this easier version of the fin sitter was- then I realised it used the block to the left or the crack with a jam to reach up left to slopers- (bit damp today mind as the slopers are in the path of the runnel above).

I had been sticking with hands and feet on the main fin block, which does make the first move quite reachy and powerful. Anyone else use the block to the left to do the direct fin sitter- I am not really sure why I eliminated it, I guess because it is a block not attached to the fin itself.

Both ways look good mind

[dave]

the only block used on the fin sitter is the little plinth of rock at the base of the fin itself.

[BenF]

I'm confused by this talk of a block to the left of the sitter and jamming a crack.  I'm not meaning to sound mardy but I can't remember there being any obvious other way than sitting underneath the arete and going straight up via some pinches and slopers into the stand up.  Don't suppose anyone has got a good photo of the lower section handy?

[dave k]

I didn`t untill i went back.

If you jam your left foot in a crack between the fin block and another small block, you can reach up left to some slopers, then slap up with the right hand - so you are effectively climbing the left hand side of the fin block- then you can either finish on the right hand side as per the usual standup, or possibly finish on the left hand side (seems like Sam W is going this in Peak Bouldering).

This approach uses the very dubious block and avoids the more powerful pinches with the left hand required by the direct approach.

Sorry no pictures!   

[cofe]

this thread is ridiculous. you just do it as per ben moon on his vid but on first move go up w/left hand to sloper up and left rather than some pinch. it climbs the feature directly.

[Johnny Brown]

Agreed. Its hands on both sides, not just the left. Just use the higher, bigger holds with the left hand.

or possibly finish on the left hand side (seems like Sam W is going this in Peak Bouldering).

He's climbing the feature by the best method. This is not an easy escape left (there isn't one) it goes direct, to force anything else would be eliminate.

[dave k]

I just misunderstood something Bonjoy said about a sloper at the bottom of the crack- thought he was talking about a foot hold. I now get it- its simple really. Let to a load of a confusion. Sorry.

A great problem whichever way you climb it. Now I just need to do it.

[Bonjoy]

I should have said beneath the crack, not at the base of it. It is about a foot below base of crack

[cofe]

lovejoy you flipping idiot. look what you've gone and done.