[Houdini]

This thread is a fucking disgrace.

[Houdini]

& it's gratin - as in one thin slice of potato, thus,

#Bonez-vous le gratin micro?

*Oui, je suis une crimpeur radge, mangez?

#Magnifique!

[Stu Littlefair]

How did I miss this thread? Have I been working or something. Far from being a disgrace Houdini - this thread is legend. It should be bookmarked and saved for all eternity. Mostly for what I'm about to say. I think Johnny is right.

There. That felt good. It's a disgrace that after all these years we don't have standard "exercises", in the same sense as campussing, for improving technique. And i mean all technique, included standing on tiny footholds and using balance (which is what I reductively like to think Johnny considers technique), to the appropriate use of core strength to get power on footholds on steep rock, which is the kind of technique you can only learn at somewhere like school, or (dare I say it) the Tor of all goodness.

Some suggestions. There are some things that I've learnt from over the years. Controlling my CoG I picked up from climbing one-handed, and hands-free on font slabs (twatty as it makes you look). I learnt a lot about steep rock and the importance of a strong back from choosing a small foothold
on steep board and pushing as hard as I can on it until my foot pops (obviously you'll need to have your hands on undercuts). Now - try the same thing but pull your hips "up and in"....

And, even more surprisingly r-man is right too. It's easy to think that technique is only something that can be learnt, barefoot, from wise monks who live in a polished temple of grit. But technique uses muscles, and these muscles need to be strong to usefully apply the skills you can learn on the rock (and indeed to learn them in the first place). So I think the first step towards learning technique should be general body conditioning. We're talking strong shoulders, calves, lower back and ankles here. I like swiss balls and wobble boards, but each to their own.

What other "technique exercises" have helped people learn to climb? Or failing that - what routes or problems have taught people lessons we all should learn?

[Houdini]

Slabs.

Post #2

[i.munro]

I am amazed that
a) a question of mine has provoked this much discussion &
b) how little of that discussion has anything to do with my original question.

Ian

[slackline]

b) how little of that discussion has anything to do with my original question.

I've dick-all experience in making bouldering/training facilities, but I'd imagine that to build a wall (or even a small training facility) with strain-gauges on all holds in all required planes on which force may be exerted upon them would be horrendously complicated and hideously expensive.

But then I know nothing about these things so am likely to be wrong.

[Fiend]

b) how little of that discussion has anything to do with my original question.

 

Stu - I've thought that a wobble board would be pretty damn good for general leg / ankle / core conditioning and balance (obviously as a purely muscular etc exercise rather than a climbing specific one).

[i.munro]

I've dick-all experience in making bouldering/training facilities, but I'd imagine that to build a wall (or even a small training facility) with strain-gauges on all holds in all required planes on which force may be exerted upon them would be horrendously complicated and hideously expensive.

You could well be right that that's where the whole idea will fall down. I'll let you know as soon as I work it out.  Just wanted to see if peeps thought it was worth making the effort.

[andy_e]

what routes or problems have taught people lessons we all should learn?

Pigswill taught me to rock over properly, demon wall roof taught me to use my feet (and legs) in better ways, and I know I've got many more lessons to come.

[lagerstarfish]

Bring on the SCIENCE.

1) I have installed a complicated system of sensors all over my skin, including those parts of my hands and feet which are used to complete boulder problems - these provide feedback to the central processing unit in my head and allow me to perform constant qualitative assessments on the amount of force being transferred to the rock via the parts of my body making that contact (indirectly through my footwear in some rare cases).
2) I also have similar sensors providing feedback from my muscles to let me know how hard they are trying relative to the amount of work they have already done and the maximum amount of work/force that they are capable of doing.
3) I have also developed a system whereby certain neurotransmitters within my central processing unit cause me to feel rewarded and sometimes satisfied (relative to the amount of effort I have put in) when I have completed boulder problems.
The three feedback systems listed above provide a crude basis for improving my technique.
Unfortunately there are a number of other activities which also trigger the neurotransmitters associated with my reward system and the interference from these is blocking the expected refinements and developments that I have previously planned for my technique. I am forced to reach the conclusion that it is the relationships between these activities and their position in the hierarchy of rewards that has the most effect on improving my technique.

I am also hoping to use the data from (3) to determine whether or not the best climber is the one having the most fun.

[Big Jim]

Good thread.

What some people have mentioned in passing but not specifically written about is that "technique" covers an incredibly broad range of different things - the techniques which will get you to the top of Right Eliminate are different to those required to climb Archangel, and different again from Sardine (for example).  The priority when sport climbing is often the conservation of energy, for which the strain-gauged board might be helpful, but what if climbing in the way that loads the hands least slows you down too much?

Control of your CoG is something which is common to pretty much all climbing I can think of, but again there are many different things you want to achieve, such as maintaining balance on poor footholds on a slab, on vertical rock leaning out to make your feet stick, setting yourself to the side of sidepulls, minimising hand loading and (most obviously when bouldering) setting up a deadpoint with momentum in the hips.  All very different, and tricky to train in one way.  I think the emphasis on strength training is understandable, given how diverse "technique training" would be whilst most climbing involves pulling down.

It might be easier to train the enablers for some aspects of good technique.  A much neglected area which I would certainly benefit from is having stronger, more flexible hips to make better use of poor footholds in awkward positions (any advice useful).  Other obvious enablers are a strong core and legs, and the accurate foot placement, all of which could be trained on a standard wall or board.

[i.munro]

Good thread.

Why thankyou. I'm happy to take the credit, even if that isn't what you intended.