[Graeme78]

Don't bother with music while your running, it distracts you from the point of being in the hills. Listen to what's going on, you'll appreciate it more. Don't worry about walking the uphill sections, it's sometimes quicker than running anyway. And I'd also suggest joining a club, I'd say eryri is nearest you, you'll benefit more from your running then.
Don't be too put off by big fell races, just do them and take your time.
Good luck and enjoy the hills.

[Plattsy]

Welcome to the gang Pantontino. 

A rule of thumb for cold/flu and running is something like. If it's above the neck then you can still go running but probably not at your usual level. If the illness is below the neck then you shouldn't run until you're back to full fitness. From my experience don't push it too early. There are articles on the web.

I didn't think I'd be interested in races when I started out running. Thought I'd get my ass kicked too and for the most part I do if you look at my results(last race result I came 215th out of 345). However I very rarely, if ever, have the same motivation/commitment in training as I do in races. There is just something about them that pushes you further. So as long as I get a personal best I'm happy or if I'm running a race for the first time I might set myself a target time to beat.

I'm sure your running friend can advise on a good local first race to try if you fancy it. If you do (and I was in your position) what I would do is find out the route and recce it first. Then use this time as my target to beat.

As for long distance that'll come with time. But don't be afraid to once in a while turn it up a notch (keep your body guessing). Drop your pace a little and try to crank out some extra mileage. If you're running with your friend he'll not mind running ahead (on the tough sections) and coming back for you.

You certainly are blessed with great places to go and lose yourself running/walking for a while. However if you decide you really want to improve joining a club might be a good idea. Running on your own is great but running with a club regularly can help with improvement as well as training ideas/motivation/new routes. I'm fairly certain there's a club who meet around Llanberis.

Music whilst running is purely a personal thing. I can take it or leave it whilst running on the road. However in the hills I agree with Graeme.

Enjoy but be careful the bug doesn't take over. Afterall it's all about climbing, right? 

[Graeme78]

Enjoy but be careful the bug doesn't take over. Afterall it's all about climbing, right? 

I haven't climbed for years now, I just come on here because it's more amusing than the FRA and ukc forums 

P.s. I'm just as crap at running as I was at climbing, and that's very bad 

[Plattsy]

Enjoy but be careful the bug doesn't take over. Afterall it's all about climbing, right? 

I haven't climbed for years now, I just come on here because it's more amusing than the FRA and ukc forums 

P.s. I'm just as crap at running as I was at climbing, and that's very bad 

Bug got you huh.

Thats two "crap at climbing and running" club members then. 

[lagerstarfish]

I've managed to get back to running regularly over the last month. Due to my very wrong eating habits I have put on a couple of stone in the last 18 months. To my surprize my legs seem to have become proportionally stronger and I am able to run at a reasonable pace - probably due to the fact that I walk 5+ miles a day and did a lot of short fast bike rides over the summer.
I'd like to shed the extra weight (dieting and running has knocked off 10 lb in last 6 weeks), but am liking the stronger legs (I'm thinking - legs of a 15 1/2 stone man powering 12 1/2 stone mass). Has anyone else been through a similar process?
I generally run 40 - 60 minutes and have been putting my effort into getting faster on familiar routes.
Anything else I should do?
I'm aiming at doing the Sheff half mazza in April. In '07 I did 1.45. I'd like to knock 10 mins off that.
I know how much difference weight makes to my climbing, but what do you folks think about how it affects running?
insufficient data, in a hurry. ta for ideas

[Plattsy]

Of the top of my head. Please check the net for details.

If you want to burn fat run at a jogging pace for 60+ mins at a time. Aiming for a heart rate of about 60-70% of maximum heart rate (MHR). You should be able to hold a conversation(ish) at this pace.

Mix this is in with some aerobic heart rate (70-80% of MHR) exercise to build up the C.V. and burn some fat. Short sentences at this pace.

MHR = 220 - Your age.

Jogging at 60-70% isn't good for the knees and is boooooooring.


To answer your question about weight. My weight was about 14 1/2 stone with a background of football. So thick thighs good for short sprinting. I'm down to about 13 3/4 stone and the legs are thinning as I lose weight but appear more defined and muscular than before. I suspect your legs will change shape and have a smaller mass yet they'll be stronger and you'll be faster than before.

[lagerstarfish]

Loosing the fat is the easy part (did I really say that?). I was asking about keeping the strength in my legs so I could get faster as I loose weight. appologies for the scrappy post.

[Graeme78]

Sounds about right. I found I tended to lose more weight when doing a lot of fell stuff, can't say I ever noticed the same for roads, but I suspect that was because I lack the motivation for running on the road and have bnever run more than 7 miles on the road.

I personally find it easier to get out for two hours plus in the fells becasue of the variety of terrain, the peace and for some strange reason I enjoy that feeling i have put my body through hell for the last couple of hours.

Can't wait for tomorrow and Sunday.

Loosing the fat is the easy part (did I really say that?). I was asking about keeping the strength in my legs so I could get faster as I loose weight. appologies for the scrappy post.

If you want to keep the power you might want to incorporate hill and interval training. That's my guess anyway.

[jfw]

have been putting my effort into getting faster on familiar routes.
Anything else I should do?

eh up lagers how many times a week you running?

when you have got a base where you are running regularly....

maybe one session do some speed work - this can range from very "serious" time or distance intervals (eg x metres  hard, with y m recovery (or x min hard, y minutes recovery) ) to less serious bursts of effort.

the principle being that to get your desired race pace - you run at that pace ( or a little faster) for an "interval" you then have a recovery period, then another interval - by making the recoveries shorter/faster or the intervals longer you progress towards being able to do your full race distance at your required pace.

less formally, once a week pick a section of one of your routes where you are going to up the effort and run hard (not all out sprinting but working hard) then recover for a bit -then pick another section - i used to run sections in ecclesall woods like this - so from this road to this road fast, linking road section recovery, to this fork in the path fast, to footbridge recovery.

then you are more consciously working at running faster

[Pantontino]

I was wondering about the fat burning aspect of running. I had heard that the 'steady as she goes' approach was the way to do it, but I find flat road running boring and a bit painful. I much prefer steeper/undulating terrain where you have to actually think about how you place your feet - I get more psyched and definitely push myself harder. Surely that means I'm going to be burning more fat?

[Pantontino]

Don't bother with music while your running, it distracts you from the point of being in the hills. Listen to what's going on, you'll appreciate it more. Don't worry about walking the uphill sections, it's sometimes quicker than running anyway. And I'd also suggest joining a club, I'd say eryri is nearest you, you'll benefit more from your running then.
Don't be too put off by big fell races, just do them and take your time.
Good luck and enjoy the hills.

The only time I've really felt like I might have benefitted from music is on long road plods. I was curious if it would help for hard up hill sections - but knowing me I'd probably give myself a heart attack if I was being fired by some really aggressive music.

Noel suggested that I join the Eryri Harriers; they do seem like a really good club. They do all sorts of things, such as hill sprinting sessions around Llanberis village on mid week evenings.

[Graeme78]

You can still use the steady as she goes approach on the fells, the main thing is to keep the heart rate elevated, this allows the 'fire' as it were to keep burning and you'll burn more fat away. You may need to use some walking on uphill sections of fell runs to allow you to keep a steady pace.
Walking on uphill sections is perfectly acceptable as you will find it's quicker and more efficient to walk than it is to run.

[Pantontino]

You can still use the steady as she goes approach on the fells, the main thing is to keep the heart rate elevated, this allows the 'fire' as it were to keep burning and you'll burn more fat away. You may need to use some walking on uphill sections of fell runs to allow you to keep a steady pace.
Walking on uphill sections is perfectly acceptable as you will find it's quicker and more efficient to walk than it is to run.

I was wondering about the walking thing - on really steep ground it is possible to speed walk really fast, and coversely I've noticed - much to my amusement - how slow it is possible to run! I guess I had just made the assumption that walking was 'bad form', a bit like using your knees in climbing used to be (not that it ever stopped me!).

My other question was about techniques for running down hill quickly. I've done a lot of hill walking and winter climbing in my time and I've always adopted a kind of quick skipping/shuffling method on steep descents. The idea being that the first foot lands and then the second foot lands a split second later behind it. Thus if either ankle goes it is supported by the other leg. This is clearly not as fast as just trucking straight down in gaping strides, but I feel really paranoid at the moment about the strength of my ankles. Maybe when I've been doing it a bit longer and my legs have strengthened up a bit I'll be more comfortable taking the more reckless approach.

[Plattsy]

Interval training and hill training. How did I not think about those? Certainly great for running faster and for breaking up training habits.

Some running downhill stuff here. http://www.brianmac.co.uk/articles/article006.htm

I think I use a combination of everything. Hop, skip, jump, long strides, short strides. Depending on the terrain. Not really thought about it. I just use whatever comes to mind. This may be the root cause to my recent ankle injury. A page or two back jfw mentioned some exercises for strengthening ankles.

[Graeme78]

Never really thought much about techniques for running downhill, there are some very good examples around on the net. There were some shown on the FRA forum a couple of years ago showing good descending technique.
You'll get better as you get more experienced, and try to look where your going, you can learn to read descents. Don't lean back too much as it  puts too much strain on your quads, I started doing this about 18 months ago and became much better. Be careful if your too cautious you'll end up getting injured, too fast the same will happen because you fall over. I've only been running a few years now and am still learning.

[Falling Down]

Good effort Simon.. a great story well told.

I'd kibosh the notion of running the fells and hills with an iPod on... it's far more pleasurable being immersed your surroundings. Running with one when on the road or in the gym (don't knock it.. I have to travel with work and sometimes it's the only option) is good though, especially for interval training.

As for running races, I think you'd enjoy it more than you think. I certainly get way fitter when I'm entering races rather than just plodding around the Peak.  Joining a club is great (I used to run for Dark Peak when I lived in Sheffield), there's a real sense of community in Fell Running clubs; it gets you out when the weather is bad and you go to places you might not have been before.

Anyone else doing the Edale Skyline in March?

[GCW]

"One for the runners".

http://www.snowquite.com/

 ???

[Graeme78]

First race og the year today trotted round Winter Hill in a fairly poor 2hrs 39, tricky conditions spent most of my time going over on my ankle, and not too bad considering my wife had ababy before Christmas. Still good to get that first race done and take it from there. Next race is a about a month away 

[philo]

hello, i would like to show my face as a punter who attempts to run, whilst im nursing a finger injury and wanting general better fitness ive decided to run more, my usual route is a 2 mile stretch along a flat road to a uphill road to a flat road to a downhill road, and when i become fitter there is a park on the uphill road that can extend my journey and the sighs at least away from cars and tarmac for a mile or so.  running without music to me would be hard tho as i dont have the luxury of listening to a river or the country!

[lagerstarfish]

have been putting my effort into getting faster on familiar routes.
Anything else I should do?

eh up lagers how many times a week you running?

when you have got a base where you are running regularly....

maybe one session do some speed work - this can range from very "serious" time or distance intervals (eg x metres  hard, with y m recovery (or x min hard, y minutes recovery) ) to less serious bursts of effort.

the principle being that to get your desired race pace - you run at that pace ( or a little faster) for an "interval" you then have a recovery period, then another interval - by making the recoveries shorter/faster or the intervals longer you progress towards being able to do your full race distance at your required pace.

less formally, once a week pick a section of one of your routes where you are going to up the effort and run hard (not all out sprinting but working hard) then recover for a bit -then pick another section - i used to run sections in ecclesall woods like this - so from this road to this road fast, linking road section recovery, to this fork in the path fast, to footbridge recovery.

then you are more consciously working at running faster

Makes sense to me.
Flu has wiped me out for the last couple of weeks, but I'm looking forward to pushing myself when breathing returns to normalish.
Normally just running 3 times a week between 40 and 60 mins on the streets of Heeley/Gleadless/Meersbrook.
The good news is that I'm now a stone lighter than 2 months ago and my legs feel quite "bouncy" as a result. Looking forward to loosing the next stone.

[jfw]

lagers i just had a chest infection - finished the antibiotics (which cleared it up straight away) only to get a cold - gonna miss my first big race i had lined up - also worried about the next one - so i feel your illness pain - this has been a right winter of it for me since november (where i think i might have started the process by overdoing it training - and since then my immune system hasn't had chance to recover)

anyway try this 5 milish run if you fancy getting muddy feet:

from heeley/meersbrook chesterfield road run down the snicket onto athol road/smithywood (as if walking to the works if you know this way) either run along smithy wood road and straight across on ulverston to sainsbury, or down norton hammer lane snicket to works and from the works go under the bridge where the mini car park is and run along the path by the river, up the metal steps, you can get to sainsbury by running past fitness first.

from archer road sainsbury garage, run into the woods alongside hutcliffe wood road, and run parallel to the river, you come out at abbey lane, then you can run into the golf course (up the drive and follow path - dashed line on linked map) and into the woods towards and along the river to twentywells lane, don't exit the wood go left up the killer steps and return along the top level path to the golf course, back the way  you came or make a loop

http://www.multimap.com/maps/?qs=s89ee&countryCode=GB#map=53.33233,-1.50822|16|4&dp=os&bd=useful_information&loc=GB:53.3529:-1.48113:16|s89ee|S8%209EE

[erm, sam]

Hey you should use Gmaps Pedometer to show the exact route, so lazy people such as my self don't acutally have to work it out.
Below is the last crappy 5.8km run I did..

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=2499273

[jfw]

http://explore.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/os_routes/show/7385

[matthew]

I'm a fan of this mapping site
www.mapmyrun.com/

Loads of options including searching for runs in your area....

[jfw]

i think gmaps and map my run both use google maps - perfect for road runs.

for off road - you can sometimes see the path you were on on the satellite view but not always - now multimap have scrollable OS maps - would be cool if could get "map my run" functionality onto OS map.