[dave k]

With recovery or just make me fat?

Assuming I have had a meal at 5pm and get home from training at 9-10pm. Trying to increase from 3 to 4/5 sessions a week. With two days in a row mid week and 2 days outside at the weekend.

Anyone have a post session snack that helps?

[tommytwotone]

I'm not an expert in SCIENCE by any stretch of the imagination, but I've just invested in a tub of this:

http://www.maximuscle.com/recovermax

I hope it works - I gather that these sort of things taste pretty rank...

[galpinos]

I started using this: http://www.scienceinsport.com/rego.htm after wall sessions as it's a long drive home, and felt all the better for it the morning after.

(I'm quite willing to conceed it might just be the placebo effect but for the 3 quid a week it cost me I'm not bothered if it makes me feel like a champion.)

[mctrials23]

I found that when i took either a protein shake or something high in protein and carbs strait after a session it helped my recovery period. Gives your muscles the fuel they need to repair strait away rather than starving them for a few hours.

[chappers]

i deffo advocate the use of a protein based recovery drink. and it is important to get it down you within about 20 mins of stopping. it will speed your recovery. esp if you want to climb two days in a row.

[dave]

advocate the consumption of approx 450 ml of malted barley supplement after a training session. best accompanied with a sachet of corn-based scampi powersnacks.

[cofe]

i have a glass of milk.

[chappers]

i deffo advocate the use of a protein based recovery drink. and it is important to get it down you within about 20 mins of stopping. it will speed your recovery. esp if you want to climb two days in a row.

i must make it clear that i do not practice what i preach.
i did about a month ago when i was training hard for running personal best, now that was achieved two weeks ago, and i have had a cold. but climbing training is followed by a pint in the postal order, Blackburn high street.

[Jaspersharpe]

Ha ha. Nice one chappers. I'm the same in that I know what I should be eating/drinking after a training session but always seem to end up in The Sheaf / Dulo instead guzzling strong lager. Beer just tastes that bit better when you've been training. 

[GCW]

advocate the consumption of approx 450 ml of malted barley supplement after a training session. best accompanied with a sachet of corn-based scampi powersnacks.

Do they still charge £2.50 for this supplement, despite it being 118ml under-volume? 

[dave]

did i type 450? fuck i was thinking 550 thats for damn sure. plus we're only talking £1.96 unless you're talking about generic homogenised domestic semi-imported refrigerated malt-based supplements.

[Somebody's Fool]

generic homogenised domestic semi-imported refrigerated malt-based supplements.

Cooking lager?

[dave]

all lager is cooking lager.

[Houdini]

Absolutely.

I slit the throat of a 16 - 19 female virgin w/my ceromonial kris - preferably under a cold & full Peruvian moon (but that's not essential) - and drink her blood.  Usually within ooooh 40 minutes of training.  I don't do this is Wales though; for obvious reasons.

[GCW]

Are there no 16-19 year old virgins in Wales?

[Houdini]

It's usually lost before they reach double figures. 




As you can imagine - this plays hell w/my training rituals.

[Paul B]

I'd suggest everyone that currently buys, SIS rego, Maximuscle Promax/Recovermax/Cyclone to get themselves over to myprotein.co.uk and save themselves a shed load of cash. Not to mention you can make custom formulae which could include your daily hit of Glucosamine and Chondroitin for all those niggling finger injuries.
Recovery XS
and Hurricane XS are the easy buys (I believe they're also stocking liquid chalk soon as well.)

I've been doing a lot of research into this company over the past week and they come in for stick for being lower quality ; that is total bollocks, if you need proof they have independent test certificates for the quality of their protein and creatine. They also use industry standard mixers so that's not an issue.

 The monetary saving is simply because they buy all the raw ingredients themselves, mix and package it and rarely advertise unlike MM, SIS etc.

[Houdini]

Don't you druggies ever worry for your kidneys? 

All that additional protein that needs to be filtered and expelled in your urine . . .   




Also - I couldn't forgive myself using creatine and other suppliments when bouldering.  I tried it once - only ever once - I took it a while before going cycling.  My time from Cwm-Y-Glo into the Pass was p.h.e.n.o.m.e.n.a.l.  I just seemed to be able to push and push and push with no tiredness at all.  I don't believe this was placebo effect as I was a very heavy smoker at this time.

It surprised me so profoundly I vowed never to touch the stuff again.  This is too much of an unnatural advantage for me - rather like Perrin Juniors' snorting of cocaine before his ascent of Raped by Affection.  A toss ascent in my book.

Please - I don't mean offence w/this post & we're all adults.

[Paul B]

Don't you druggies ever worry for your kidneys? 

All that additional protein that needs to be filtered and expelled in your urine . . .   




Also - I couldn't forgive myself using creatine and other suppliments when bouldering.  I tried it once - only ever once - I took it a while before going cycling.  My time from Cwm-Y-Glo into the Pass was p.h.e.n.o.m.e.n.a.l.  I just seemed to be able to push and push and push with no tiredness at all.  I don't believe this was placebo effect as I was a very heavy smoker at this time.

It surprised me so profoundly I vowed never to touch the stuff again.  This is too much of an unnatural advantage for me - rather like Perrin Juniors' snorting of cocaine before his ascent of Raped by Affection.  A toss ascent in my book.

Please - I don't mean offence w/this post & we're all adults.

Houdini, if I was to be offended by you that easily then I don't think I'd frequent these boards anymore.

The thing is most of the stuff in cyclone/hurricane is readily available in sources of food, but to eat the amount of protein that you get in a shake etc. you need to spend a lot more money and you'll be grazing an awful lot of the time which is inconvenient for most people not to mention when you've got to walk/drive back from the board, it just isn't practical to have a steak post work out.

I'm yet to experience any WOW effects from creatine but I believe taking recovery drinks has been highly beneficial to me, especially when recovering from heavy weights sessions (I used Rego a lot during my latest injury phase).
I eat well but I dont think I get the protein I need from my diet, so again these shakes are convenient. I have read about liver damage etc. but I think my liver is probably less at risk than yours 

[Houdini]

You think?


You know it is!   


No - I don't judge and point fingers in this case, and how we destroy ourselves is our own business (I won't list the stimulants I've used over the last 20 years just incase I actually assimilate the info and go into shock).  I just wonder if people know the risks of consuming more protein than their body can handle.

I believe the reason I responded so massively to Creatine is that I've not eaten red meat since I was 15, that's 21 years ago (a mouthful of Slopers roadkill duck last Xmas doesn't count)  and you know where creatine comes from in the diet.

How comfortable we feel knowing that perhaps we may not have made the ascents we have without these suppliments is a personal matter between ourselves and the wind.  For me it's unacceptible; and is not a matter of bodily abuse.  Again no judgement, just expressing what I feel is right (a comment on this is conspicuous in its absence - in your post) I've not climbed 8B.  I care not if it never happens as bouldering achievement never made me happy or any less insane.

(Also I believe that for us to get these desirable components from our food we would bloat-out within days of setting on this course; there is so much more to any food than just what we want out of it.  That's why suppliments are used - I believe.  Also, there is a school of thought which believes that anything in such a pure form is not so useable by our bodies and that it's important for these wanted components to be complexed for them to be efficiently assimilated.)

[Paul B]

I understand what you're saying but I don't think that using these drinks means that you are taking in more protein than your body can handle (45g per sitting ish I believe?) and therefore your liver isn't at risk.
The line of acceptability for me is drawn by what is allowed within other sports (and i don't mean what people get away with in cycling etc). I (and this is just an opinion) don't see the harm in using (in effect) a super-food, I mean i'll happily pop glucosamine sulpahte and chondroitin when I've got achy fingers or take vitamin c tabs when my girlfriend is trying to pass on her latest cold, is there any difference in doing this and using concentrated steak dust? Do you also deny yourself these on the same basis that it may give you an advantage (purely out of interest, no finger wagging here you understand)?

[Houdini]

For me it's more to do w/who I am and how I got here.

I was forced to move and shake and learn to tie my own shoelaces very early etc..  I have an exaggerated sense of independence.  I feel that science (other than reparatory materials: chondriotin etc.. and whatever 5.10 mix into Onyx) has no place in my activity.  I do not consider bouldering a sport as a sport is rule based.  Here, I can and do do whatever I want w/impunity.  This is not possible in sport; sport is bound to hard and fast rules (except Baseball, Dave) and there is an adjudicator etc..

Also, I am somewhat old fashioned and seasonal in my activity - abhor sponsorship, advertising etc.. and truly revel in my amateurism.  Creatine makes a difference.  Doubt that?  Talk to Paul Higginson.  Mind you, your style is different and largely climb on grit (I think I'm right about that) and doubt creatine benefits on this subtle and tenuous style of climbing.  Lime?  Most certainly.  Very long problems?  Definately.  I just can't take over-the-counter drugs 

Yeah - I drink a little.  But this is actually extremely recent and coincided w/my giving up smoking.  This was around the time we met.  That picture is damning - oh yes - but it is not me.  I know you are not saying I'm a wino, and I may be drinking wine now, but darn it I didn't touch alcohol til I was 24 (discounting a two month stretch when I was 17).  It's 12 years of fags/pot that nearly murdered me - but I'm over that.  But this is off topic. 

Interesting discussion.

[Paul B]

For me it's more to do w/who I am and how I got here.

I was forced to move and shake and learn to tie my own shoelaces very early etc..  I have an exaggerated sense of independence.  I feel that science (other than reparatory materials: chondriotin etc.. and whatever 5.10 mix into Onyx) has no place in my activity. 

But again whey protein is a reparatory material and is no different than the supplements you mention above. It repairs muscle not joints, thats the only difference. Granted creatine is a slightly different matter.

Also, I am somewhat old fashioned and seasonal in my activity - abhor sponsorship, advertising etc.. and truly revel in my amateurism.  Creatine makes a difference.  Doubt that?  Talk to Paul Higginson.  Mind you, your style is different and largely climb on grit (I think I'm right about that) and doubt creatine benefits on this subtle and tenuous style of climbing.  Lime?  Most certainly.  Very long problems?  Definately.  I just can't take over-the-counter drugs 

I must correct you here; I rarely climb on grit, mostly on lime and wood and strangely enough I much prefer routes over bouldering. I'm pretty certain my style is very different to that beastly thing that you refer to but for very different reasons. I'm sure it makes a difference, I just don't have a problem with this difference as it can be obtained from a really damn good diet (if it were convenient). I put training ideas into practice, use increased bodyweight exercises etc. I don't differentiate between the goals gotten from my training or my diet, its all focused in the same direction.

How comfortable we feel knowing that perhaps we may not have made the ascents we have without these supplements is a personal matter between ourselves and the wind.  For me it's unacceptable; and is not a matter of bodily abuse.  Again no judgment, just expressing what I feel is right (a comment on this is conspicuous in its absence - in your post) I've not climbed 8B.  I care not if it never happens as bouldering achievement never made me happy or any less insane.

I'm not quite sure what your getting at here, so instead of jumping to conclusions or disappearing off on a tangent i'll await some clarification 

Interesting discussion.

I agree

[Houdini]

Oh fishy wishy wish.  Wherever he did gooooooooooooooooooo!

Whey protein is nothing.  Albumin is nothing.  Cashews are nothing + 40% fat.


I'll be direct to avoid confusion - do you believe you would've nailed 8B without creatine in the same timeframe?

The blab at the end is my attempt to vocalise my motivation against what I believe I could achieve by going all the way.

Paul - buy and read this book, Yoss will back me up on it's awesomeness:

Confessions of an unlikely bodybuilder - Sam Fussell

(I would add that I too train heavily, but only use MDMA and wholefoods  )

[GCW]

So if you could have got Ecstacy/PCP etc over the counter, you wouldn't have taken any?

SCIENCE has its place guys.  Where that is, I'll let you two fight about.