[dave]

mother of fucking pearl. let's have dr. doowank while we're at it then

shirley the natural pun there would have been Dr Dooshittle.

how about those tom biggs dyno routes, one at black rocks, maybe on at ramshaw if memory serves correct(ly).

Ozbound - has that had a repeat (or even an ascent)?

[Andy B]

how about those tom biggs dyno routes, one at black rocks, maybe on at ramshaw

The Devil is in the Detail (Boom Bip has already been mentioned)

[mark s]

Ozbound - has that had a repeat (or even an ascent)?
[/quote]

theres prob a few more of them aswell.

[Jaspersharpe]

Ozbound - has that had a repeat (or even an ascent)?

Don't be ridiculous Dave. What about this photographic evidence?!............

http://heason.net/Images/Portfolio/Ben%20Heason/OTE%20-%20Ozbound%20-%20page%2010%20-%20OTE%20115.jpg

 

theres prob a few more of them aswell.

Does Toy Boy fall into that category? I know there were always rumours that Ron might have been slightly economical with the truth about it's possibilty at the time of the "FA". Has anyone else tried / done it?

[andy popp]

[/quote]

Does Toy Boy fall into that category? I know there were always rumours that Ron might have been slightly economical with the truth about it's possibilty at the time of the "FA". Has anyone else tried / done it?
[/quote]

In a rather nice touch, the afore mentioned Mr Heason has done Toyboy

[Jaspersharpe]

I know that Andy.........I meant anyone else.

[dave]

Ozbound - has that had a repeat (or even an ascent)?

Don't be ridiculous Dave. What about this photographic evidence?!............

http://heason.net/Images/Portfolio/Ben%20Heason/OTE%20-%20Ozbound%20-%20page%2010%20-%20OTE%20115.jpg

luckily we all know thats a staged photo, paz was even there! similarly theres a photo of heason on toyboy albeit way above the hard climbing. I don't want to drag up the whole heason thing again but since the whole issue of bens honesty  was all totally unresolved I wonder how this effects the gritstone history and future guides, especially since the froggatt script was being written by heason himself. I know everyone was saying, "why does it matter, he'd only be cheating himself etc" this is exactly why it does matter.

has charlotte rampling at gardoms been repeated?

[SA Chris]

Who ordered the large can of worms?

[GCW]

In order to avoid going down a well trodden (and thorn lined) path, I think we should all concentrate on something else.

bens honesty 

Dave's terrible grammar for example   

[Jaspersharpe]

Yeah I know I probably shouldn't have gone there but I was wondering if the whole Heason saga was ever resolved. As I wasn't climbing at the time I've only just read all about it and from what I've seen (despite all the utter wank written on UKC) nobody ever actually got to the bottom of it. I know that the thread on here was pulled etc so feel free to tell me to shut up..............but as Dave says it is important if things are gonna be recorded acurately. Hmmm.

[GCW]

You're right, accuracy is important in my opinion.  But unfortunately things tend to degenerate into a slagging, not always I admit.  Words require picking with care.

"There's no evidence for it, but it is scientific fact."

[dave]

yep, recording stuff accuratley should be the primary concern here. i don't think anyones slaggin yet or knee-jerking so if we carry on this track i'll be fine.

if you're going to put a route in a guide at X grade then theres a certain responsability there (even given the large pinch of salt you must always give grades) that the line has indeed been done and is somewhere near that grade. especially these days since onsighting/ground-upping could/should be more in fashion, guide is even more crucial if you're not spending a season toproping the line first. The problem is probably made even worse by the fact that, broadly speaking, the routes in the peak BMC guide grades are extrememly well graded, so its not like northumberland where you'd get on a VS expecting anything from severe to E3. you'd get on an E6 expecting anything from mid-E5 to mid-E7, and it not to be an unclimbed E8 for example! a good example here would be Wango Tango at wharncliffe in the '89 guide, though to be fair that was given a dagger symbol.

[GCW]

I always thought those dagger symbols were quite a good idea.  Make a note that something is unconfirmed, and when someone does it it can be removed- grade agreed etc.
Claiming something that has not been done (ballpointing, eh?) is very naughty  but proving it's the case can be difficult.  Photos prove nothing, one (unedited) video would be much better.  But how far do we go with this in future?  Any 1st ascent claims must be witnessed by your GP, a police officer and a vicar/immam etc and have a video with decent soundtrack?  Climbing is supposed to be fun.  It's a shame some people allegedly spoil the ethos by lying.  Allegedly.

[soapy]

inman..?

how would john inman assist..?



..apart from teh fact he's perpetually free; at least when captain peacock reqests it

[GCW]

I guess he could spot you on highballs.  He's very careful with protection.
So, if you slip on one he'd be ready to receive you at the bottom?

[dave]

At least you can be sure he'll be paying attention. he's not easily distracted by Mrs Slocombe's pussy.

[Jaspersharpe]

I reckon he'd be fucking useless considering he's dead.

On the video evidence thing I think the point is that if someone claims something which people know is within their ability then nobody bats an eyelid. When someone claims something that's a bit harder than the level that they usually climb at then people might want to know if anyone saw them etc. When someone claims numerous ascents considerably harder than the level at which others have usually seen them climb and all when there was nobody there then I suppose it's fair enough that some people ask for evidence to back the claims up. And if none is forthcoming people will draw their own conclusions. Allegedly. It wouldn't be a pleasant state of affairs if every ascent had to be backed up by a video (or indeed John Inman) but I don't reckon most people will think it's necessary in most cases. The unsatisfactory non-conclusion to the Heason thing has left too many unanswered questions though and it will be interesting to see how guidebook writers are going to deal with it. Again accuracy is key but how do you get an accurate picture if someone may or may not be playing by the rules? Allegedly.

[GCW]

Again, alleged Jas, you are allegedly correct.
My video point was more that there's never really absolute proof, it's more people being trusted to speak the truth.  Which is fine.
But, if someone claimed something hard at their usual level, would anyone bat an eyelid?  Someone who has done a few E8/9s could claim a route like Meshuga that is bold and dangerous without having lead it (not pointing any fingers towards SG, just the first bold thing I thought of on grit).  Assuming they had top roped it they would get a rough idea of grade. Nobody would bat an eyelid?
The alleged affair you talk of is unsatisfactory.  That and the Si O'C cases are regarded amongst many in the same way.  But that isn't to say there aren't other things around that were claimed but never done.

As I said before, it's a few bad apples allegedly ruining it for us all.  Integrity is important in my world.  Allegedly.

[Jaspersharpe]

Yes I agree. Of course it's perfectly possible for someone to claim something which is at their normal level without causing any suspicion. And there are (allegedly) plenty of other things that have been claimed but not done.

We have to trust that most people aren't bullshitting twats though.

[GCW]

We have to trust that most people aren't bullshitting twats though.

I think you've hit the alleged nail on the head there.  But you were less polite than I was 

[Idol eyes]

Thing about the Heason claims, is he claimed solo accents, of rope routes, without witness, with no photos due to his shy nature, then,
puts on a top rope, forges photos, and claims cash,,,
Due to his climbing "style", I would hate to see these ascents, as he is well sketchy, I know of no one who supports this guy, I have only seen him climb once outside, in ten years on the Grit...
But he has become famous, If he has done these routes, then he is on the very limit of his ability, and has put his health on the line,,, very few people have climbed like this,
Ben Tetler.
Yabo...
DT! (with utter conviction)
who knows who else!

[soapy]

..putting aside mrs slocombe's pussy for a moment (only a moment, mind), what's the situ with repaets of the lines around Linden?, qf:

happy hart (already discussed)

grey area

drummond base

[Somebody's Fool]

I believe Toby benham did Grey Area, not sure about Drummond Base.  He possibly did this as well.  Nige'l know.

[cowboyhat]

I thought Pat had done Charlotte Rampling? Leo's Belayer and the Show Pony tried it last year/season but I think all backed off.

I never doubted the 'Ozbound' ascent as it looks alright, especially as he toproped it first. E9 though... not in my standing underneath based opinion.

[Nigel]

Toby did do Drummond Base as well as Grey Area. You're right, I did know.