[Carnage]

Just come back from the Peak at the weekend. Went up to Rowtor and I think I have found the easiest B8 & B9 in the peak. Is it me (or an error in the Guidebook) but is Short Seans Reachy Roof seriously B8? and the flake dyno (No 23 in the Guide) really B9?

Your comments please.......

Also, does anyone know if using the foothold out right (part of the B6 problem to the right) allowed on the V10 Fin? - I was arguing with a mate as he was using it and reckoned it was in....

Cheers Guys

[Adam Lincoln]

Not as easy as some problem we found at Gardoms! Cant think for the life of me the name, but i think it gets B8 in guide, more like b3!

Anyone know it?

[dave]

I've never stied the stuff you're on about (only been there twice and got bogged down on Blood Falls) but i belive scouse d was tried/dome them before and I'm sure he'll offer some opinion.

[dave]

Cant think for the life of me the name, but i think it gets B8 in guide, more like b3!

Anyone know it?

You're going to have to give me more to go on than that!

[Adam Lincoln]

Cant think for the life of me the name, but i think it gets B8 in guide, more like b3!

Anyone know it?

You're going to have to give me more to go on than that!

I know! Just thought it might have been a notorious give away at Gardoms... I check PB tonight.

[dave]

B8s in the guide at gardoms I'm thinking mark's roof and thats about it. That certainly ain't B3!

[Adam Lincoln]

B8s in the guide at gardoms I'm thinking mark's roof and thats about it. That certainly ain't B3!

Might even be B9, will look later

Yes, lost much skin on Marks Roof!

[dave]

Ahhh, you're either talking about the little hanging arete in the far alcove, or one of the daft (no heelhooking) traverses, tasty graunch etc.

[Carnage]

Know the one you're talking about and think it is given B9!

Little arete in a recess, foot up and slap round the arete to the top...

B3 is much more like it.

Whats funnier is that the book reckons its harder than B9 'cos one of the footholds has gone!  I can imagine the sit might be harder......

[Adam Lincoln]

Ahhh, you're either talking about the little hanging arete in the far alcove, or one of the daft (no heelhooking) traverses, tasty graunch etc.

Sound on the money with that. Hanging arete

[dave]

That problem certainly ain't B3, I've tried it a few times with others and never seen it done. Might be B3 if you're starting off that block though.

[(woz)]

that arete is about b5 if you're tall from the block on the right but its much harder (and better) about b8 from the grass. not as good as the hanging b7 arete. what a problem!

bit of beta if you havn't done it...pull up onto the arete and slap round with your right hand. get a toe hook with your right and its done. i saw someone do it by jus slappin from the start holds though.

[Scouse D]

You ain't wrong-Short Seans is an absolute gift at B8- sean must truly have been short to find that hard, still a good problem though warranting B6 I reckon.
I've tried the flake dyno brieflybut can't remember doing it as conditions were wet n warm(that's my excuse anyway)- remember thinkin it felt easy for the grade but can't really comment.
Don't know about the fin. I've only had two goes on it and got really close with a right foot out and pressing off left shoulder to top. Don't think my foo was on theB6 problem but if you can reach it I don't see why not- if it makes it really easy though it's prob not the way it was first done.

[Scouse D]

P.S comparing flake dyno to minus 10 B9 dynos then it prob warrants B9!

[Omega]

while we're talking gifts at rowtor - that yogurt hypnotist thing (the direct start and finish to the chip shop mantle) ain't v9 - maybe v8 on a warm day.

however - blood falls is super hard for B8 and i thought raw power was pretty stout as well - but then it was greener than kermit's finger.

[Brian C]

Give the SD to 'Fin' (Quine) a try. It's nice.

[Brian C]

Just come back from the Peak at the weekend. Went up to Rowtor and I think I have found the easiest B8 & B9 in the peak. Is it me (or an error in the Guidebook) but is Short Seans Reachy Roof seriously B8? and the flake dyno (No 23 in the Guide) really B9?

Short Sean's could be V7 if you ar eindeed short. Get's easier if you are taller. For me (6'2") it's V5-6. The flake dyno is V7 (for me)

Also, does anyone know if using the foothold out right (part of the B6 problem to the right) allowed on the V10 Fin? - I was arguing with a mate as he was using it and reckoned it was in....

Fin at V6 is a squatting start with your left hand already in the undercut. The sit down (Quine) starts properly sitting down and is V10 if according to Rupert and V11 if you talk to Ian Vickers. The foothold out right (the left hand hold for the problem to the left) is on.

[Ru]

When I did Quine I didn't use the foothold out right, just a couple of low smears. After going back to it with Dave Buchanan we both repeated it by the original method and thought V10 was a bit on the generous side.

Here's how we did it:

Sit start with both hands on lowest side pull and pull on, spin round a bit and slap left hand into undercut with feet on smears, then put right foot by right hand and style (statically, bien sur) to the lip.

I did have a video of it, done on my (then) shiny new digital camera. However, a mate was looking at it, and by the time she muttered the immortal words "what does 'format' mean?" it was too late...

[Brian C]

Well there you go. I just sat down under the scoop and used those holds that presented themselves. Doesn't seem that 'on' and 'off' route holds really apply, esp. as it is apprently easier if you don't use the foothold out right (Vickers used it and thought V11, I used it and would be more tempted to say 11 than 10). I would, though, need to undertake an intensive yoga regime if I was going to get my fat ass into a hand/foot, so the right hold certainly fits me better.

More people should go give it a try. 1) to get some consensus, and 2) because it is a class problem.

[Omega]

so what's the deal with short sean's...

seems to me that its all a bit vague in the guide but the version i did on the weekend was to start on the left edge of the base block (as if starting that B3ish problem that comes straight out to a diagonal groove over the roof), reach out for a shite sloper just on the edge of the roof, left footjam, slap right hand into crap underclings and then make long reach with the left hand to a small but good pocket/dink thing.  match hands and then hand traverse/campus right to a couple of good slots on the end of the roof, heel on and a loooong lock to the incut top?  sound familiar at all?  i thought about v6/7ish but it would be a lot easier if you used the right hand base block as well.

also...

about 5 metres left of short sean's is a big style roof problem that takes some big underclings, a small crimp on the lip and a grim looking mantle above a big drop - anyone know what this is?  seemed to be a lot of chalk on it??

[Percy B]

while we're talking gifts at rowtor - that yogurt hypnotist thing (the direct start and finish to the chip shop mantle) ain't v9 - maybe v8 on a warm day.

Nice one, Omega! U is obviously the man.  :roll:
Just a couple of pointers though. The Yoghurt Hypnotist is an eliminate, and doesn't use any of the runnel is the side wall. I presume you didn't use this hold, but if you had that would make it a lot easier.
Secondly, the grade of V9 was how hard it felt to me when I put it up. Obviously, moves I might find particularly hard, others may find easier - or vica versa. The grade is only a guide as to how hard the thing might be, and the grade of this problem has been confirmed by several folks whose opinion I trust, including the reclusive Darwin Weasel (a man who should know)!
I ain't saying you're wrong, but I'm saying always take the given grade, even if you think a problems easy! Are you missing the whole point of bouldering? Its all about the grade man, not about fun and hippy stuff. Big numbers and big egos, this is where its at! (tongue firmly in cheek!)
Seroiously, though, its about time we stopped quibbling about numbers - they are a guide, thats all. Everybody who has ever put up a new problem or route has worried whether the grade they want to give their line is accurate. This is why Sharma doesn't bother to give his stuff grades anymore, and sometimes I think he's right. If you get given a gift, don't argue about it - its bloody rude! We all like to tick problems with big grades, so when you do one that you find easy, don't quibble - take the grade, Baby!
I just got back from a nice long trip to South Africa, and didn't feel the need to down grade any of the problems I did. I did enjoy climbing them though, and thats what its all about isn't it?!?!

[fatboySlimfast]

word

[Omega]

thanks for the advice - next time i'll remember to enjoy myself a lot more.

but seriously, i thought the yoghurt hypnotist was a gift at v9 - nothin' personal at all as i'm sure you're a very strong climber.  and i can understand your anxiety about grading etc but that's the rub of putting up problems.  if you truly believe that stuff about grading being personal, subjective yada yada yada then i know you wont mind me disagreeing with you.  proves the rule doesn't it.

by the way, i thought the problem was sweet - nice work.

[Percy B]

Glad you liked the problem. I have spent quite a lot of time bouldering elsewhere this year (USA, Africa, France...) and one thing that is becoming increasingly obvious to me is that Grit is the hardest rock to get accurate grades for. Tall climbers will normally have an easier time on grit than little people, due to the nature of the rock - lots of horizontal breaks, etc. Also climbers who have good 'feeling' for the rock, and have good footwork and flexibility will get an easier ride. (I know this is the same for all rock types, but these factors are more crucial on grit, where brute strength will not always help you send!)
I think that a lot of problems will always feel a lot easier for some folk than for others (eg: Short Seans at Rowtor is pretty much impossible for my girlfriend as she is 5 foot 3, yet she can climb V8 on steep rock with tiny holds when the climbing is hard rather than reach dependant!) A grade of B8 for this problem for her is irrelevant.

I also feel that the Peak is suffering from what I like to call 'grade compression'. We downrate problems that we have become familiar with, because they start to feel easier. West Side Story fells like the living end at hard V8 first time round, but I reckon it feels more like V7 to me now, but I've done it loads of times. Going elsewhere and bouldering has given me a good idea how our grades equate to other countries, and the Peak grades are HARD. Remember, grades are given for the on-sight, or should be. Lets not be too hard on ourselves by downrating stuff - maybe we're all getting stronger?!?! :wink:

[dave]

I also feel that the Peak is suffering from what I like to call 'grade compression'. We downrate problems that we have become familiar with, because they start to feel easier. West Side Story fells like the living end at hard V8 first time round, but I reckon it feels more like V7 to me now, but I've done it loads of times. Going elsewhere and bouldering has given me a good idea how our grades equate to other countries, and the Peak grades are HARD. Remember, grades are given for the on-sight, or should be. Lets not be too hard on ourselves by downrating stuff - maybe we're all getting stronger?!?! :wink:

This is a good point that i've often thought about. There are loads of problems which feel desperate till you do them and then piss afterwards, but we should always grade assuming its the first time round. afterall thats what grades are for, to direct a visitor as to what problems are worth trying. To locals grades are almost redundant, cos like you say being familiar with a problem will drop the grade it feels. If it takes the average climber ages to sort out such-and-such sequence for a problem but then it feels easy then the difficulty in finding that sequence should be reflected in the grade.