[Bubba]

"Training to failure is failure to train"  according to training meister Neil Gresham.

As someone who trained hard through the misguided 80's and am just getting back into using my woodie again, this just seems plain wrong! I always feel the urge to just do that bit more so I feel trashed, although I've been resisting it with Neil's words echoing through my head  :?

What are peoples thoughts on this, and how far do you take it? Do you stop when you're completely fresh? I can see how the benefits will be reaped via faster recovery/being less susceptible to injury, etc but surely you have to go some way to failure in order to give those muscles that kick up the ass.

[dave]

When i used to go down the wall i would boulder for several hours, not taking many rests, until by the end i was so fucked i could hardly do my ward-ups. Intuitively this feel like its doing you some good, but for the last year i've been doing like the experts say, and stopping before i am fucked. I think it has many benifits:

• You'll never be able to climb many days on the trot if you go for bust
• You stop before you start to thrash, thus avoiding injury
• It keeps it quality
• You don't have the demoralisation of failing on stuff you know you could do

I read a Malcolm Smith article once where he described a good evening training as "a quality session of about an hour on the woody, then go and see your bird". I can't argue with that.

[Bubba]

Been trying it the last few sessions, just need to combine it with some post holiday flab reduction now to see if it works!

I think my major mistake is when I'm out bouldering, I'll just try problems over and over without having the proper rest in-between goes. Generally means that by lunchtime I'm finished. Think Guru Gresham recommends A rule of thumb is to rest at least 1 minute per move completed on a problem, and rest for 20 minutes for every 40 minutes of bouldering.

[dave]

Yeah i have the same problem trying to slow myself down, particularly noticable outdoors, when you are just hungry for the send!! (shit that sounded very transatlantic...)

1 minute per move sounds a bit long, imaging you were falling off the last move of a 20-move traverse. By the tiem you've rested 20mins you'll probably have to warm up all over again!

[Bubba]

Yeah, it does seem perhaps a bit much for long problems where the moves aren't that powerful, but I think the 20mins rest per 40 is good advice. Last thing I want to be doing when I'm out is checking my watch all the time thoug, so I reckon I'll just slow it all down and generally stand about doing nothing a bit more.

Good excuse to get the cameras out though, which is something that often gets neglected in the bouldering frenzy.

[Phish]

As I am very new to climbing I find it good to about one problem every
4-5 minutes (indoor) but I can only do the easy ones so I try to reduce the amount of time I'm resting.

[dobbin]

Its a European thing the resting a minute for every move. I reckon its wise to be honest, if its a 20 move traverse then 20 minutes is about right - how long would you rest between redpoint attempts?

I struggle to keep off the damn problems/route as I'm always mad keen to get back on though - thats the hardest bit. A lad I climb with always encourages a rolly between attempts - that breaks the time up.

As for training to failure is failure to train - not that I wish to question Mr Gresham, who doubtless has researched the hell out of the area and probably knows best, surely the point of a system board is to train a certain grip position to failure? am i missing something?