[north_country_boy]

Did Walnut Whip yesterday at Baslow, and also did a finish across Little Richard to the arete.... (which incidentlly felt about Font 7b+ - as the finish via the jug felt very soft)

However in Ru's guidebook, it mentions Choker - Font 7c+, which apparently drops down to a sloper (right hand starting hold on Little Richard?)

Anyone any idea which loine of holds it takes across the middle, as it seems way easier than the grade suggested with any logical combination.....

or is it just another Domes SS scenario?

[Percy B]

Starts on same holds as the normal traverse, and drops low onto a slopey ledge via a sharp crimp to gain start holds on Little Richard, then continue traversing at same level around the arete and head up to finish. Its a shit eliminate, but tricky. 7c+ comes from consensus between me and Mike Adams, the only two people I know who have done it. If it feels easier than 7c+then maybe you are the man, or maybe you're using the wrong holds, or maybe the problem has changed since it was first done? Holds break, wear away, etc, etc. As I mentioned, it is a shit eliminate.

I presume by your implication that you think I habitually overgrade my problems? Domes Sit Start was originally done without the massive heel-hook under the roof, which made it a bit harder than 7b/7b+. I didn't try and use a heel hook because the rock was shitty and friable, so did it without. This way the problem feels hard. The hold everybody now uses for their heel is a result of the friable flakes under the roof breaking, being worn away, and finally repaired by Jonboy - a very good job he did too. Thus it is now easier than when I first climbed and graded it. However, it is still a good problem, and I'm glad it still receives traffic. This is yet another reason why I hate grades - rock changes, and people find better ways than the first ascentionists. It doesn't make the first ascentionist a bad person, you know! I'd like to think that my grading was reasonably accurate, although obviously this is completely wrong and I'm being delusional again...

Having just read this back to myself, I apologise if it sounds a little arsey - not intended! 

[Andy B]

When I checked these problems out, I thought that Choker was the more logical (least eliminate) of the two traverses. I assumed that the line of jugs wasn't in on Walnut whip, as if they were it was no where near 7b+ (or B10). So traversing on a line one foot beneath the jugs seemed a very artifical eliminate, whereas at least on the Choker the jugs were out of reach.

I would go and try the choker, but I don't think that I would bother with Walnut Whip. Unless I have got something wrong in my perception/ interpretation of the problems.

Ps. Domes low start felt about 7c to me.

[Doylo]

i would say Walnut Whip is the more logical of the two although it is a bit overgraded at 7b+

[Mark Lloyd]

I think with the number of problems you have set and climbed over the years Percy you should have a better grasp of the grading system than most. Although some of the problems at the edge you set, I did wonder if your dog had any input into the grade given.javascript:void(0);
Smiley

[(woz)]

Did Walnut Whip yesterday at Baslow, and also did a finish across Little Richard to the arete.... (which incidentlly felt about Font 7b+ - as the finish via the jug felt very soft)

Walnut Whip is middle line that you did - i.e. abut 1ft below the huge jugs. The version with the jugs was reported as a new V7 on the rockfax site ages ago.

Thanks to Percy for clearing up the line of The Choker. I'm sure I will end up having a go on it at some point (Baslow is pretty much the closest crag to my house).

[Bonjoy]

 Grading new probs is the hardest thing in the world, bar none. It's just ridiculously hard to grade stuff sometimes and manys the time i've reclimbed (or failled to reclimb) stuff i've put up and been of a totally different opinion on the grade. You make your best guess and then just hope people will show some understanding if you end up offmark.

[(woz)]

Agreed. When grading things you really open yourself up for critiscism(not really the right word for it) which can be hard to take at times. I have a lot of respect for people who give things a honest grade, not undergrading to "look hard"/refusing to grade it.
Making silly comments about people being wrong about grades doesn't help anyone. I hope you (NCB) didn't mean anything by the Domes' comment.

[Bonjoy]

 Better to give an honest grade and risk a downgrade than going for the deliberate and cowardly undergrade for fear of looking punterish.

[north_country_boy]

Cheers for clearing that up percy.... Have only dogged the moves on Domes SS briefly but definately didn't feel 7c+ with the footblock, so i take your point

Woz has mentioned what I thought was the line of Walnut Whip, which felt right at 7b+, rather than the V7 version using the jugs.

May try Choker sometime, as it combines probably the best two sequences on the block (sloper traverse start of WW and Powerful start of LR)

Good point about grading new problems Bonjoy, the original post wasn't meant as a dig, just thought it may have had some duff elimnate nonsense rules....which aren't really clear in the guide.....so wanted clarity as to where the 7c+ grade comes in...

[Percy B]

The number of problems I have set and or climbed over the years has only further warped my perception of grades. The more I do, the more random my grading becomes. I am notoriously bad at grading stuff, and I almost begrudge giving grades at all 'cos I don't really believe in them (but obviously, this is all forgotten if I do a problem with a big number!) Poppy the dog is normally pretty accurate with her grading, but her attention tends to wander from the grading process if there is a ball, stick, sheep,biscuit or lump of fox poo around.

I think having a job that involves having to give a grade to thousands and thousands of problems over the years, and then hear everybodies two pennies worth as regards my grading accuracy has made me unusually sensitive to the whole subject!

[Dr T]

You make your best guess and then just hope people will show some understanding if you end up offmark.

sounds totally fair to me
one thing to remember about the font grading system (don't know enough of the history of the spread of V grades to comment) is that for a time they where used competitively between climbers in different areas of the forest hence some of the massive inconsistencies around the place, things have evened out a bit so I'm told (I don't climb in font as often as I would like) but starting from this basis you're going to have problems.
Plus is comparative, does the problem feel easier/harder or the same as problem X graded Y we're all different shapes strengths and staminas and we're all better on different types of rock/problem because of it so the best that can be said really is that it's an honest stab....

[Andy B]

When I checked these problems out, I thought that Choker was the more logical (least eliminate) of the two traverses. I assumed that the line of jugs wasn't in on Walnut whip, as if they were it was no where near 7b+ (or B10). So traversing on a line one foot beneath the jugs seemed a very artifical eliminate, whereas at least on the Choker the jugs were out of reach.

I would go and try the choker, but I don't think that I would bother with Walnut Whip. Unless I have got something wrong in my perception/ interpretation of the problems.

Having had another look at these, I would like to revise my position:

Walnut Whip is eliminate, but only has one simple rule - no juggy ledge, and some nice moves, Choker is very low, and arse scraping, and less clear as to what is in or out. So Walnut Whip is the better of the two in my opinion now.

The true traverse line is the the V7 mentioned above (which is actually about V4/5), starting as for the others but using the juggy ledge after the slopers.

[cofe]

sounds about right word. realistically i think walnut whip is no harder than V7/7a+, and the line up to jugs about V4. i'd rate them as both good problems.

does anyone have any info on the easier problems around the back of the big boulder here?

[dave]

this probably makes it look more appealing than it really is, but its still worth doing if you're already at the crag. i thought the problem looked shit for years, and it still does look shit but it climbs better than you'd expect. could be nails if you dropped on a wack sequence.

[Andy B]

Yep. That sequence flows really nicely. It feels like you're just holding positions, and moving your feet around a bit, rather than having to crank and lock.

[(woz)]

That is a wicked picture. If you enlarged the boulder by about 5x you could almost be in hueco. The way I did WW felt way harder than v7. I did use a different sequence though.

[dave]

If you enlarged the boulder by about 5x you could almost be in hueco.

I always wanted to go to hueco but after you've said that i'm not sure.

I would say 7a+ could only apply for a good sequence in ideal conditions, when the problem is clean and chalked.

[Nigel]

When I did this I thought it was pretty tricky. Didn't know where it finished though, I kept going low round the arete which is possibly a tiny bit harder than finishing Little Richard. I felt it was harder than 7a+ anyway, confirmed by Johnny Brown who couldn't do it. Nuff said!

[Andy B]

When I did this I thought it was pretty tricky. Didn't know where it finished though, I kept going low round the arete which is possibly a tiny bit harder than finishing Little Richard. I felt it was harder than 7a+ anyway, confirmed by Johnny Brown who couldn't do it. Nuff said!

We (Dave, Scouse Cofe and I) all went low (on the same level) round the arete rather than finishing up Little Richard. This is mainly what has changed my opinion of it, as I used to think it finished up Little Richard.

[Andy B]

This photo should be ideal for clearing up the lines on this face.
I would draw the lines on, but I don't have the IT skills, so I will try to describe the lines, as I see them.

The V7 (V4).

Starts on the jug where Cofe's right foot is,
pulls staight up to good hold,
reaches left to big sloper,
up to small crimp straight above (you can see a faint chalk streak),
reach left to the jug rail,
and finish along this and up

Walnut Whip

The first three lines above, then,
match the sloper,
continue at the same height, as per cofe, to the arete, then up slab. (you can see a tick mark, where you reach the arete).

Choker

The first three lines above, then,
Little incut crimp by cofe's right elbow,
sloper by cofe's left armpit,
pinch (starting left handhold of Little richard),
small flat crimp up and left (no chalk on it in the picture but you can make out a faint straight line in the bottom right corner of the green patch,
two rounded bosses at the base of the arete, at the same level as the crimp,
then pull round the corner (dab!) and up the slab.

Little Richard

The straight up problem, to the jug rail.
Non eliminate, and the best problem on this boulder. (wouldn't you agree Dave?)

[Nigel]

I ended up very low on the arete at the end I think, pretty sure I wasn't up where your chalk is. Probably did WW into end of Choker without doing any of the hard moves in Choker = bad sequence. Apologies, just ignore me. 

[Andy B]

I ended up very low on the arete at the end I think, pretty sure I wasn't up where your chalk is. Probably did WW into end of Choker without doing any of the hard moves in Choker = bad sequence. Apologies, just ignore me. 

To get into the Choker I think you would either have to do the Choker, or reverse the crux of little richard which would be a big dropdown move, and probably harder than anything on the Choker.

The arete is actually good enough most of the way up (I think I actually got a pinch on the arete about a foot or so beneath the tick mark in the picture with my left). The finish of the Choker (as I see it) actually hangs under the arete from holds at its base (very close to the ground).

Bear in mind that dave's photo makes it all look a lot higher than it actually is.

[Scouse D]

The sequence Dave told me is very pleasant on WW and is, as has been mentioned V7. Me and cofe had a good session on the back of the big boulder and climbed some nice problems (some of which we are sure must be new- or not done for muchos anos). The best of the ones we did was a technicalish slopey groove/mantle, and many sit sarts to easier problems.

[Andy B]

The sequence Dave told me is very pleasant on WW and is, as has been mentioned V7. Me and cofe had a good session on the back of the big boulder and climbed some nice problems (some of which we are sure must be new- or not done for muchos anos). The best of the ones we did was a technicalish slopey groove/mantle, and many sit sarts to easier problems.

Check out cofe's Baslow info request thread for some talk of problems in that area.

[cofe]

this is right as i understand it:



(sorry for trashing your pic word)

[north_country_boy]

What about the combo of WW and V4"V7" without the crimp up and right of sloper and straight up to juggy rail from middle of WW traverse (after matching sloper and using pinch in middle of traverse)..... this felt nearer V7 than V4, maybe the crimp is crucial at that grade?

(For WW, it seems i did correctly, finishing around the arete on the slab, traversing at same height as Cofe)

[Pantontino]

Cofe, further to our conversation yesterday, the lad who did the first ascent of Little Richard was Richard Hughes. I used to work with him at DR Climbing Walls. I think it was about '94 when we were there. I've got some scribbles on the topo in my old OTE Bouldering in the Peak District guide. He did the direct line (I wrote 7a? next to it), and I did an easier sds to the right, moving up to make a higher right to left traverse; can't remember if this was an eliminate - probably not though. Not sure how that fits with your descriptions? Maybe the green V4? I say maybe, because I've marked the start as being different to Wallnut Whip, i.e. further left.

[cofe]

What about the combo of WW and V4"V7" without the crimp up and right of sloper and straight up to juggy rail from middle of WW traverse (after matching sloper and using pinch in middle of traverse)..... this felt nearer V7 than V4, maybe the crimp is crucial at that grade?

]
yeah that would make sense i reckon. although i think the v4 is the more obvious/natural line.

panton - cheers word.

[dave]

I occured to me whilst idley sat in a meeting this week that a "good" (for this boulder at least) linkup might be to start as for little richard, but before going to the jugs reverse the WW to the big round boss sloper, then finish straight up via the little hold on the green problem sans jugs, probably with a little mantel action. would probably be about 7a+ish, aught to be harder then WW, i suggest it be called "I whipped a my walnut whilst choking my little richard". All that remains is for it to be climbed. Send any claims to me on written on a fiver.

[Andy B]

I suggest that you focus on your work whilst in meetings.

It would be more productive.

[(woz)]

How about a font style training circuit: The choker, into little richard, reverse WW to the big sloper, and then back down the Choker... I propose "East Choker" 8?

Seriously, Dave's suggestion doesn't sound half bad (to me at least). I for one don't think this boulder is as bad as you are all making out.

[a dense loner]

that obviously says more about you than anyone else woz. there's just been a discussion about 2 moves different, armpits apart. the lines even look wank, and are

[(woz)]

I never said that it wasn't wank. Just that IMO it was less wank than people were saying. Maybe this has something to do with the fact that, as they are my local crags, I grew up at Baslow and Curbar. They are my friends.

[Somebody's Fool]

Being local does have a blinkering effect.  You should see some of the 'wank' problems a dense loner has climbed near where he lives.  And some of them have been done before.  Fancy that. 

[a dense loner]

you a funny guy

[a dense loner]

ps. yes i have climbed a fair few wank probs, that's how i know wank when i see it 

[ferret]

ok havin done all these problems heres my 2peneth

little richard 2 move wonder quite nice bout right at 7aish

walnut whip nice climbing but if u want a tick anywhere near 7b+ u need to eliminate the high good sloper n just use the sideways facing crimps

the choker total dogshit line but with some good movement can be dry wen other places r wet if u hav the right wind hence y i did it probably soft at 7c+ but no easier

[Barratt]

Post search I thought it most appropriate to continue this thread rather than start another.

Went to look at WW yesterday and whilst we figured out the easy start and last moves, was coming unstuck on the hard middle moves, namely coming into and out of the opposing small crimpy things.

Any beta on these couple of moves would be appreciated.

Course it could be that I'm just not strong enough! 

[Andy B]

On the left hand gaston crimp, don't crimp it, but instead use your thumb on the edge and drag the sloper above it. This makes life much less powerful and you can hang left off it and match in on the other crimp easier.

Hope that helps.

[Barratt]

That's soot on Andy, thanks!

Justnlooking at the image further up, that seems to be exactly what Dave is doing.

So from there I'm thinking you're going to have to move the feet off the rail to avoid being too stretched out?

[Andy B]

Either from that move or the one after, swing your feet round and sit on your left.

That ain't Dave in the photo.

[Barratt]

Thanks fella