[Duma]

Can't say I've noticed much diff from the old rubber. The new heel for the velcros, on the other hand, is a revelation - not cause it's that great, it's just light years ahead of the shite that used to be attached to the back of what was otherwise the world's greatest boot.

[moose]

I can't really comment on the relative stickiness of Onyx vs the old stuff but I can tell you that it wears pretty bloody fast.  My new Anasazi velcros are still in the "arrgggghhh-my-ingrowing-toenails" breaking-in stage but the rubber already has an irregularly peeling look like the "Singing Detective's" face.  A mitigating factor is that I wore them on holiday in Ariege - home of some incredibly rough limestone slabs and even rougher (grittier than grit) grantite - but the degree of wear is still pretty worrying (I suspect that they will wear-through just as they are becoming absolutely fantastic).  For comparison my venoms have been used far more but their soles (the new Vibram XSGrip stuff) are still pretty pristine.

[Johnny Brown]

Agreed, slightly stickier, wears out quicker. I thought the even stickier, but harder wearing bit was too good to be true.

[dave]

Can't say I've noticed much diff from the old rubber. The new heel for the velcros, on the other hand, is a revelation

A reveltation in that it used to be a good heel, then they revolved it round to being a shite heel. in fact they've almost ruined the whole boot:

1. Onyx rubber seems to wear faster and I haven't found it to be any stickier really.
2. They are more expensive now.
3. The heel is shite - doesn't fit my foot any better than the old heel, only now theres less rubber on it and because theres loads of half-glued open seams they start to fall apart the first time you heelhook on anything positive. Basically its another point for Fivetens legendary shite build quality to manifest itself. Lets not forget that in my pair when the heel does stay on a hold my foot starts to slide out of them, which never happened with any of my old boots. In fact i've kept my last almost-knackered pair incase i want to try brad pit again.
4. The "velcro" is now shite. i use inverted commas since they have dropped the word Velcro from the name we can assume they're not actually using real velcros anymore but some cheap shite. it just doesn't stick very well. I have had these boots pop open on my, which again I never had with the old boots.  If i wanted boots that pop open sponteneously I'd have bought some of them abortional Montrails. The problem is excaberated due to the fact the velcro straps are about 3inch longer than they used to be (and need to be) so they tend to pull open on the ground, and the strap is stiffer so the velcro can't get a good purchase on the curved surface of your foot. And the crowning turd in the waterpipe is instead of being a webbing backed strap it got the gay faux leatherette thing going on so you can't even cut it off and melt it closed with a fag lighter anymore to adjust the length.
5. The padded tongue on mine started to come away at the top almost immediatley.

Theres fucking progress for you.

[GCW]

So have they ruined the Pinks as well?  Bastards.
I always use the lace ups as the Velcro's heels were a bad fit on me.

[dave]

I don't know, I think the pinks were always too narrow for me. The heel on the pinks always looked like it needed a redesign (or even just a design) and hence i can understand em giving that a new heel, but the velcros always seemed fine to me. dunno why they chose the "if it ain't broken then fuck it up good a proper" school of thought.

[GCW]

Interesting.  I have wide feet and the lace ups were fine.  The velcro heel is just agony after 2 minutes- digs into my tendo Achilles.  What are the new(ish) Anasazi slippers or the V10s or Galileos like?  Worth having a look at them?  [yeah I know you need to try them on first ]

[Sloper]

While we're on the subject of slabs anyone else done swooper? If so where did you go at the top?  I scuttled off left trying hard not to do an impression of a large brown snail.

[andy_e]

So have they ruined the Pinks as well?  Bastards.

They ruined the pinks by making them luminous green!

[SA Chris]

Do you know what law they do follow then?  A nonlinear one? 

Rubber don't follow no law. Rubber is a renegade, operating above the law.

Word.

[butters]

Can't say I've noticed much diff from the old rubber. The new heel for the velcros, on the other hand, is a revelation

.....The problem is excaberated due to the fact the velcro straps are about 3inch longer than they used to be (and need to be) so they tend to pull open on the ground, and the strap is stiffer so the velcro can't get a good purchase on the curved surface of your foot.

You are 100% correct in this instance - those bloody straps are way too long!

bluebrad

[james]

Just a note about the onyx rubber.  According to SCIENCE, the rubbere is stickier and tougher wearing.  Tested against C4 in many ways including an ever rotating/alternating sanding disk for a certain period of time, then the weat measured.  The onyx came out every time on top.  Not sure what other people have found out in practice, but my boots are lasting longer than ever and and I have been using onyx for almost 2 years now.

[Johnny Brown]

You must be getting special pairs. I've been wearing Velcros for over ten years, been through at least 12 or 15 pairs. The last two pairs I've had have worn out quicker than any previous - alarmingly quickly. Of course my footwork could have taken a nosedive, or they're putting thinner rubber on.

Personally I find the heel an improvement. Its not amazing, but its a bit better.

[moose]

From what I can tell the new velcros are just completely different boots to the old.  It would probably have been less misleading for 5.10 to do what they did with the lace-ups and give them a different name and colour.  I never used to be able to get my feet properly into anasazi's without immediate crippledom but the new models fit very nicely.  The weird lumpy dead-space in the heels that the old model had even seems to be almost erradicated.  It's still there to an extent that would be a complete fuck-up for any other manufacturer but with 5.10 it just seems a quirky nod to their past!  Agree that the straps are shite though...

Main thing though is that the rubber is fantastic - I've never owned new shoes with either C4 or Onyx and it's been a revelation (I had always been a bit sceptical).  Not sure whether the frictional properties are strictly any better but it just feels somehow more trustworthy.  There seems to be less "creep" before it gives which encourages a positive approach and hence better slab skills (was very useful in Ariege). 

So good shoes overall but if they continue to wear out so quickly (not just the rubber but the seams etc) I'm not sure that I could justify another pair (maybe try Montrail Wassabis, or are Acopas any good?).  Oh well left to dream of a slightly softer Sportiva Katana with 5.10 rubber..... (mind you they no longer even stoock non-imaginary Sportiva's in the North East anymore).

[GCW]

I've missed all this.  I always just re-order pinks off the web whenever there's an offer.  Now I'll have to go and try some boots on.  What a pain.  Any other recommendations?

Bring back Lasers 

[soapy]

so:

5.10s are now shit
boreal went shit
scarpas were always shit
sportivas are rarer than rocking horse shit
red chilis??

[Johnny Brown]

I wouldn't say 5.10 were shit, they are still the best performers. During the window between breaking in and falling apart/ wearing out they are amazing, you just have to put up with that window being smaller than with other manufacturers.

[The Sausage]

sorry, i haven't read the whole thread so if i'm repeating something that's already been said... apologies.
according to JB, keeping your heels as low as possible is key. my right ankle is a bit shot from breaking it and hence i can't raise my toes on that side. it makes standing on smears impossible - i'm basically front pointing. is there a corrolation between ankle flexibility (into dorsiflexion) and slab skills? you could try stretching your calf/achilles to improve?

[Paz]

I didn't find Onyx wore out quicker, but I moved from 'stazis to Galilei's.  The velcro is a pain in the arse, and the tongue pad also wore out on mine too.

Rubber don't follow no law. Rubber is a renegade, operating above the law.

:-).  On the off chance: I know Rubber's supple; I can describe it's suppleness using the theory of elasticity, but I don't know what boundary condition describes friction apart from Coulomb \tau<=\sigma\mu\ (this one underlies my above argument).  I didn't spot any in Contact Mechanics.

[AndiT]

I wouldn't say 5.10 were shit, they are still the best performers. During the window between breaking in and falling apart/ wearing out they are amazing, you just have to put up with that window being smaller than with other manufacturers.

It was just too small in my opinion. The pull-on tab would normally snap within a week and then the seam beneath your inside ankle bone would split and then the seams inside would come apart. All this would happen while the rubber separated from the toe rand in a split rather than wearing away. I put up with this for years, I would buy a pair, they'd break, I'd take 'em back then just let the new pair destruct before buying another new pair. They were sticky though and well fitting.

I think the cost of boots is the biggest off-put for buyers. You'll pay £60-£75 for a pair of boots, they could be anything from crap to amazing, you can't really test boots properly as you need to bed them in first, so people tend to just stick with what they know i.e. JB's decade in Velcro's. I think 5.10's marketing is very clever, if they changed how they looked and their name then this would be an opportunity for people to consider trying something else. How many people who love and stand by 5.10 have tried anything else in the last 5 years?

Surely there's a lot more to slab skills than rubber though otherwise how would wooodward ever got up anything!

[webbo]

Surely there's a lot more to slab skills than rubber though otherwise how would wooodward ever got up anything!

by using a ballpoint.

[Johnny Brown]

I don't think 5.10's marketing is clever at all, they have just come up with a high performance product and had the wisdom or laziness not to change it much. Time has demonstrated they can get away with poor quality control, folk will still put up with it to have the edge in performance. And if the top guys wear them that's good enough for the rest, I know that's how I used to choose boots. I have tried others, either my wide feet didn't fit or the rubber wasn't as sticky, well both in most cases.

[John Gillott]

Oh well left to dream of a slightly softer Sportiva Katana with 5.10 rubber..... (mind you they no longer even stoock non-imaginary Sportiva's in the North East anymore).

I've found the Barracuda's to be something close to what you want (softer version of the Katana).

Re rubber: Barracuda's have XS-Grip (vibram), as do the new Scarpa shoes I think.

[dave]

i had some barracudas for a short period last year, cos one of the shops had them in cheap. but they started to split open after no time (strange for sportiva) so i took them back, but alas they had no more in my size, so i got some V10s (good at the front for steep stuff but dogshite heel). Shame cos they were very good. sportivas are usually very well made, and are good for wide feet - take note JB. The rubber, unlike boreal, never felt too bad, and unlike 5-10 the uppers don't fall to bits as much. boreal rubber you really had to work hard to get used to, and they were best just as they wore out. sportiva rubber seems a bit more of a happy medium, i.e. longer lasting than stealth, pretty sticky but not too hard or need too much wearing in. I think sportiva are the only boots i'd look at these days other than 5-10. boreal do some great fitting shapes and designs, bombproof build but ultimatley i don't have the inclination to learn how to climb again with the rubber.

[Andy B]

my right ankle is a bit shot from breaking it and hence i can't raise my toes on that side. it makes standing on smears impossible - i'm basically front pointing. is there a corrolation between ankle flexibility (into dorsiflexion) and slab skills?

Kim frontpoints everything, and has a very respectable slab pedigree (in my opinion). I think his theory is in maximising the pressure on a small spot and so minimising the slippage. (or that might be my theory for why he always gets up slabs in half the time and trauma it takes me.)